AMAZING EXPLOIT: How to be unraidable on day 1

[Luno]

I do not have a strong opinion on this. On the one hand I think the mechanic/exploit is a bit ugly (hence we removed it), on the other hand I can see the point that its a convenient early game defense for larger groups (hence reverting the removal). Do note that it is possible to attack a cave system thus claimed off by mining into it, and that seems somewhat fun in itself. Given that I do not have a strong opinion, I am disposed to defer to most anyone who does, but since this is apparently controversial, I also am disposed to letting things stand as they have historically (i.e. it being possible to claim off caves). Feel free to convince me otherwise, I suppose, but for now I am going to let the changelog stand.

:shrug:

I think it goes without saying that pretty much anyone(i assume) thinks that this is not ideal, and a potential rework of the early stages of the world could be a much more fruitful discussion.

[roskuwacz]

When mining to other cave you need to use minesweeper (because metal is still locked behind leather) to get to "target" cave and this is visible on map before you will spot players on screen. When more organized group is banding up now they will block like 2 cave systems around their main cave which will make it quite impossible to mine to them without mine supports.

So at the end this cave blockade is helping larger groups to hide their characters with outlaw at night. Simple solution? Do not keep your outlaws in your main cave or just do not do crimes before palisade.

Other "solution" is to increase Vandalism lp cost or something

[Luno]

When mining to other cave you need to use minesweeper (because metal is still locked behind leather) to get to "target" cave and this is visible on map before you will spot players on screen. When more organized group is banding up now they will block like 2 cave systems around their main cave which will make it quite impossible to mine out without mine supports.

So at the end this cave blockade is helping larger groups to hide their characters with outlaw at night. Simple solution? Do not keep your outlaws in your main cave or just do not do crimes before palisade.

Minesweeper is actually really easy, and not "quite impossible"
Go give it a try, it's quite fun.

EDIT: The argument about outlaws and stuff is just silly, everyone is target of griefing on early stage, not just outlaws.
Most of this griefing is done without leaving scents, i would wager.

[Dawidio123]

When more organized group is banding up now they will block like 2 cave systems around their main cave which will make it quite impossible to mine out without mine supports.

We blocked most caves nearby, they just mined for a couple hours. Can't do much to stop someone who really wants to mine in.

Not everyone wants to split up their group or can afford to early on to make sure their main cave isn't found out y'know, also it's straight up not fun to split your group and live like fucking rats under the cupboard in fear of ppl figuring out where you are.
I agree there should be some discussion about how early game protection is and perhaps increased soak to stone fences or something idk, but this is not a discussion for 3 days before wipe lel.

[roskuwacz]

When more organized group is banding up now they will block like 2 cave systems around their main cave which will make it quite impossible to mine out without mine supports.

We blocked most caves nearby, they just mined for a couple hours. Can't do much to stop someone who really wants to mine in.

Claim even more caves so their will be mining to your cave for 24 hours, then you will get leather right?

[Nocturnal-Rainbows]

Feel free to convince me otherwise, I suppose, but for now I am going to let the changelog stand.
:shrug:

Well, that's not gonna happen. The clique gets what the clique wants and since they have a bunch of yesmen NPC's on discord they'll do what they always do by convincing you that this is a good idea when it isn't for the reasons laid out in this thread.
The game you have crafted already allows people to avoid being found. Rather than letting people embrace the harsh survival aspects of the game you have created, in actuality you're letting people bypass that by just slapping down a claim pole in front of a cave and making it the only real valid choice to go with because every other way to start is flat out inferior. You're going against the nature of your own game and killing choice.

But like I said, no doubt the NPC's will get you to go with what they want because that's historically what they've always done.
Keep in mind, no hermit was complaining about not being able to block off a cave. It was snail and other big villages because this directly benefits them more so than anybody else.

[Vert]

We can make house and put claim near its entrance, you can bash house if you have vandalism and 49 str and axe in hand but it will take long time. Its same as blocking cave but we dont have cave blocked all over the world.

[Dawidio123]

We can make house and put claim near its entrance, you can bash house if you have vandalism and 49 str and axe in hand but it will take long time. Its same as blocking cave but we dont have cave blocked all over the world.

49 str is day 1 stats without much effort. Well at least in the old fep system.

[Austinh15]

Feel free to convince me otherwise, I suppose, but for now I am going to let the changelog stand.
:shrug:

Well, that's not gonna happen. The clique gets what the clique wants and since they have a bunch of yesmen NPC's on discord they'll do what they always do by convincing you that this is a good idea when it isn't for the reasons laid out in this thread.
The game you have crafted already allows people to avoid being found. Rather than letting people embrace the harsh survival aspects of the game you have created, in actuality you're letting people bypass that by just slapping down a claim pole in front of a cave and making it the only real valid choice to go with because every other way to start is flat out inferior. You're going against the nature of your own game and killing choice.

But like I said, no doubt the NPC's will get you to go with what they want because that's historically what they've always done.
Keep in mind, no hermit was complaining about not being able to block off a cave. It was snail and other big villages because this directly benefits them more so than anybody else.

The new discord btw I'm pretty sure is ran by the Illuminati. One day I woke up and I was typing about how much I hated SoS. Scary times. Castor they won't let me out of my cage please help they're coming oh no god please help NHO NO NO HEAAALP AHHHHH

[DonVelD]

I do not have a strong opinion on this. On the one hand I think the mechanic/exploit is a bit ugly (hence we removed it), on the other hand I can see the point that its a convenient early game defense for larger groups (hence reverting the removal). Do note that it is possible to attack a cave system thus claimed off by mining into it, and that seems somewhat fun in itself. Given that I do not have a strong opinion, I am disposed to defer to most anyone who does, but since this is apparently controversial, I also am disposed to letting things stand as they have historically (i.e. it being possible to claim off caves). Feel free to convince me otherwise, I suppose, but for now I am going to let the changelog stand.

:shrug:

Hey, I think blocking off the cave entrances with claim poles is good. Like you said you can mine in anyways which happens every world to one of the major groups. It's not entirely saving you so it's not an exploit, just a feature imo. Also yes, it is very fun to mine into another group and making em scatter like rats lmao.