Palibashed BW - I'm out. QQs and ragequits inside.

[APXEOLOG]

Q: Why should I play a game in which I can never be 'safe', and am guaranteed to be griefed by superpowers?
A: I won't.

You can be pretty much safe if you will invest some work into your defenses. Double/tripple walls are usually enough to prevent event attempts to raid you. Setup diplomacy contancts with villages around you so they will not raid you. Don't let people see your valueable goods (make buffer zone so inner village will be invisible). There are lot's of villages (and i'm not speak about 'top-tier') who was ok with just these 'passive' defense.

NG+ - where did you get your botting client? 8 grids of BW is an awful lot... not to mention leveling the entire area

Completely possible without botting with how long the worlds been up, not to say that it wasn't botted though.

He just doesn't know about Badich. Maybe it is even good, because he may leave this game if he will know how much Badich plays HnH.

Beating up NPCs is now the same as destroy hundreds of hours of others peoples work even if just pixels? Guess killing bears is about equal to casually running out another player out of the game amirgight?

For me you just another NPC. And your dialogs are too boring, hope game designer will change them.

[burgingham]

Pretty pathetic... asserting the dominance of a group of botting no-lifers over some casual loners. Do you drown kittens when you aren't playing HNH? Beat up little children in the playground?

This isn't bitterness speaking, just an observation. It would take a very insecure and pathetic person to derive pleasure from exploiting such a massive power imbalance.

I think you are missing the key difference between this game and real life. This is a game. People beat up prositutes in Grand Theft Auto and no one expects that they must do it in real life too.

The difference being that the prostitute is an NPC and the people hurt here are actual players who spent time and energy on what they accomplished. So in my opinion it does show a lack of empathy if people in this thread or the game in general do not seem to understand that. They can only have fun at the expense of someone elses feelings. I find that weird, but it seems to be a problem not just tied to games.

I guess those are actually two different factors so let me seperate them.

1. Lack of empathy: The inability to grasp the fact there is a real person sitting at the other end of that internet connection. It might be due to the anonymity of the internet (which then directly factors into number 2) or it might be a lack of the ability to reflect upon ones actions. The latter I would often attribute to the age of the average person playing online games though. So they might learn it in time I guess.

2. The inability to experience fun without hurting others. Well now that...actually is kind of disturbing. Again it might be caused to no small extent by the anonymity of the internet. It is noteworthy to realize though that not everyone is behaving like that. Actually a rather small but invested part of the playerbase (that is now the only part of the playerbase that has not quit, as usual) is. Would be an interesting topic to do some research on.

I guess there is a third point being mentioned here.

3. The game lacks a clear set of rules and since it is within the realm of possibilities to commit such actions why shouldn't I? I cannot really argue against that I guess, the two sides here just disagree on what rules should be common sense and in the end you just have to decide which side you choose. But then we are back to points 1 and 2 since those determine what kind of person I want to be in game.

Edit: Apxeolog just gave a perfect example of the inability to generate any empathy by answering to Avu's post. I am not sure if we have any psychology majors here, but I am actually curios to get some data on such occurences. Maybe someone has any references?

[Onep]

Stuff

You know, it's pretty funny how you mention empathy and such. In DayZ, I like to play a murderous cannibal. I murder (or get murdered by) most the players I encounter. It doesn't bother me at all. But you know what bothers me? When they actually talk to me. When I hear their voice I begin to recognize that they're another person just like me wandering Chernarus. It's easy to murder that scared voiceless bambie, but when he begins to plead for mercy and talks to me, it changes the paradigm.

In Haven, there isn't that chance, it's just another faceless avatar to murder. I guess in short, it's easy to disregard the fact that other players are human in Haven due to the minimal interaction. I doubt many players would play the role of the bloodthirsty raider if they actually knew the person they were about to murder. It's similar to how war propaganda always works to dehumanize the enemy. If you're killing the kraut or the jap, it's not another human, it's just the enemy.

[barra]

You know, it's pretty funny how you mention empathy and such. In DayZ, I like to play a murderous cannibal. I murder (or get murdered by) most the players I encounter. It doesn't bother me at all. But you know what bothers me? When they actually talk to me. When I hear their voice I begin to recognize that they're another person just like me wandering Chernarus. It's easy to murder that scared voiceless bambie, but when he begins to plead for mercy and talks to me, it changes the paradigm.

Kill-on-sight drones like you ruined DayZ. Games that trigger an emotional response are rare and Rocket kinda designed DayZ to do that. Killing people is not the goal and it's supposed to make you feel bad when you're forced to do so. With a few exceptions sniping it's only interesting to kill or be killed by players when they're behaving like people, angry or pleading or panicked or whatever.

[Onep]

Stuff

Lol, next time I walk up to someone on the airfield I'll ask them if they want to join my circle jerk instead. Maybe I'll give them a magazine too. At least I'm not the kind of kiddo who pretends to be friendly until you've got your back turned eating a can of tuner.
But I don't get, why is it okay to murder randoms as a sniper? Talk about the least amount of interaction possible. All they receive is an instant "You are dead" black screen. You can make up all the little rules you want, but don't expect me to follow your arbitrary rules of conduct missie.

[APXEOLOG]

Edit: Apxeolog just gave a perfect example of the inability to generate any empathy by answering to Avu's post. I am not sure if we have any psychology majors here, but I am actually curios to get some data on such occurences. Maybe someone has any references?

I don't see why does he need my empathy. Does he a disabled person and cannot build brickwall by himself? I'll help him then, for sure.
Or you think empathy is an ability to not raid lazy people? You'd better check dictionary then.

Killing people is not the goal and it's supposed to make you feel bad when you're forced to do so

If you don't like to kill people in video games, you can choose one of many games without PvP. It's your choice, but our choice is not to listen your bullshit in PvP-oriented games.

[Onep]

Edit: Apxeolog just gave a perfect example of the inability to generate any empathy by answering to Avu's post. I am not sure if we have any psychology majors here, but I am actually curios to get some data on such occurences. Maybe someone has any references?

I don't see why does he need my empathy. Does he a disabled person and cannot build brickwall by himself? I'll help him then, for sure.
Or you think empathy is an ability to not raid lazy people? You'd better check dictionary then.

Killing people is not the goal and it's supposed to make you feel bad when you're forced to do so

If you don't like to kill people in video games, you can choose one of many games without PvP. It's your choice, but our choice is not to listen your bullshit in PvP-oriented games.

Exactly! I don't get why people want to go on some moral crusade every time some fool gets murdered.

[Avu]

Or instead of kraut or jap it's jorbs anal friends. Also no clue what DayZ is but it probably doesn't take months to build your sandcastle/ character only for it to be knocked out in a few minutes... so to do it in Haven requires even more lack of empathy.

I really miss the days of Josan and other pathetically inadequate thieves they used to be somewhat worthy of talk. Right now it's all serious base leveling made by people who only get off by doing such things. I guess the subscription model put a stop to new players joining and only the old established factions survive and the ones interested in larping got long ago weeded out by both the venomous playerbase and plain old boredom.

As much as I hate to say it the game needs lots of fresh blood even if it means becoming a lot more casual friendly. If the already here playerbase can't handle that maybe it wouldn't be such a big loss. I mean I don't play two and half worlds and when I come back it's still exactly the same groups doing stuff. Evil russians, less evil russians, canado-american for the lolz dicks, american-canadian for the lolz less dicks, international jorbs anal friends, the goons hiding so much they quit before they did anything and brodgar who is just a puppet for other interests like always but moreso. Game reaaaaaaaly needs some fresh blood man.

[Jalpha]

3. The game lacks a clear set of rules and since it is within the realm of possibilities to commit such actions why shouldn't I? I cannot really argue against that I guess, the two sides here just disagree on what rules should be common sense and in the end you just have to decide which side you choose. But then we are back to points 1 and 2 since those determine what kind of person I want to be in game.

They don't have to go to the full extent of what is allowed by game mechanics, yet they do. I'm not sure if it's a perception that the "end game" is to destroy everything that isn't you or if people don't realise that they have a choice. Or... As you mention...

I am not sure if we have any psychology majors here, but I am actually curios to get some data on such occurences. Maybe someone has any references?

But you don't want to go there. It's a dark place and not necessarily constructive or fair to call people out for traits exhibited in a virtual world. I'm a strong believer in that pain inflicted is pain expressed. In other words people try to alleviate pain and turmoil within themselves by inflicting it upon others, thereby gaining temporary relief and empowerment.

But then here I am, a vicarious observer, reveling (to an extent) in the suffering of another. Who is any one of us to judge really. Diversity is the spice of life and I think a greater problem than people being kinda... Well nasty, is people trying to force everyone else to act and believe as they do themselves.

Edit:

I find that weird, but it seems to be a problem not just tied to games.

This is true and that's the frightening part. The human condition. It is not pleasant.

[Onep]

Or instead of kraut or jap it's jorbs anal friends. Also no clue what DayZ is but it probably doesn't take months to build your sandcastle/ character only for it to be knocked out in a few minutes... so to do it in Haven requires even more lack of empathy.

Well, basically you scavenge for equipment for a few hours and once you have a good load out you hunt other players. But instead of losing your equipment in a few minutes, it's in a few seconds.