Towercaps NOT fixed yet

[Archiplex]

The bug is that caveins are supposed to be stopped if there are ANY supports in range, allowing you to build supports near a towercap and then chop down the towercap safely.

The issue is that this doesn't always work, and that occasionally caveins will happen even in protected areas. This isn't unique to towercaps, either- it's happened plenty of times to me when a pillar breaks while you're mining- even if the area is supported by another pillar, the cavein somehow still occurs in it.

Easier to notice with towercaps as they are often planted and chopped within very supported regions.

[MagicManICT]

So far I haven't had any issue, and nobody is posting hard proof that I'm seeing. Maybe loftar can see something different, maybe there's a "one off" bug or edge case with the radius on the tower cap. So far all I've seen is "but natural cave" as an argument, so if I'm completely off base, pardon the intrusion.

[Archiplex]

So far I haven't had any issue, and nobody is posting hard proof that I'm seeing. Maybe loftar can see something different, maybe there's a "one off" bug or edge case with the radius on the tower cap. So far all I've seen is "but natural cave" as an argument, so if I'm completely off base, pardon the intrusion.

No you're fine, the OP did a piss awful job of explaining the issue, but mostly because loftar has already seen the bug before and has tried to fix it in the past.

It's not about radius, however. You could, for example, build 8 support pillars 7 tiles away from the towercap at the center (so the radius all overlaps at the center + a significant distance outside of it) and chop down the towercap and it might cause a cave-in at the center of it all.

The issue with the OP on the other hand might have to do with cavein 'tiles' generating on top of natural cave regions (keep in mind that mined out tiles are still cavein tiles), which if unsupported and a towercap gets chopped off on, would cause a cavein.


Although this is old, here's an example of the cavein bug for me:



I've already cleaned up the area somewhat, but the cyan tile is a support pillar that broke. That support pillar caused 4 distinct cavein 'regions'

Two of them are circled in red. These are regions that were supported by another pillar, but somehow still caved in. Both of these areas had far more cavein rocks and tiles, although I had cleared them out.
One is circled green. This is an area unsupported by the pillars, and is proper to have a cavein on.
Directly north of the green one (near the olivine) is another few rocks of cavine that were also proper caveins. I just forgot to circle it green.

[Granger]

The issue seems to be that a cave in can cascade into a supported area - while somewhat realistic... not a fun mechanic.

[MagicManICT]

I do expect debris to fall out into supported areas. It's a random direction and amount of debris. Supports are an abstracted concept of what one expects to see in a real mine from the period, not a "magic barrier." Yes, it's a pain in the ass to clean up, and debris on the wrong tiles means supports can take more damage when cleaning up. I, at least, am ok with that as it makes sense.

[abt79]

realistically chopping trees on the surface should collapse the cave level below and each collapse should chain to the floors below tbh
more caveins when?

[MagicManICT]

realistically chopping trees on the surface should collapse the cave level below and each collapse should chain to the floors below tbh
more caveins when?

You're assuming that a few tons of wood makes any difference when you have a few million tons of rock between the tree and first cave level. It might, of course, but realistically? We're talking thousands of a percent... you could argue a squirrlel burrying an acorn has an effect. Maybe if the first level was something akin to in DF where each layer can be considered something like 10M (and then the cave in system there is a bit wonky compared to what one might expect of real rock formations... but it's a game, it has to have relatively simple rules).

Point of my above post was "mine engineering is not a simple science." We're not going to have realistic systems, and we shouldn't want them. When real mines collapse, it can leave the entire structure unusable for hundreds of meters or more in any direction.

All of this is an aside, and I'm trying to do my best to try to get a reasonable explanation for our system. I'm not going to say "there isn't a bug." That's for loftar to decide, and at the moment, he says he doesn't recognize one. That means our assumptions about how the system work are wrong, or we need to provide better evidence of a bug occurring.

[Enjoyment_2]

I still don't see what the bug is.

I'll show you:
official patch notes says

Towercaps now work as minesupports. They develop a support radius gradually as they grow up, and have, when fully grown, the equivalent radius of a (wooden) Mine Support. As with normal Mine Supports, they can be safely removed if they have never prevented a cave in.

And now take a look at screenshot and answer:
1. Have those towercaps ever prevented a cave in?
2. Can you safely remove them?

The answers are:
"Those towercaps never prevented a cave in" and "they CAN"T be safely removed"
I've marked the bug-part with CAPS.

Just to clarify:
The towercaps in natural caves are working directly opposite to how they should by description. That's a bug.

Also, don't derail threads in Bugs with personal thoughts on "how things should work".

And, please fix.

[ctopolon4]

just build support near towercap before chop it

[Fostik]

just build support near towercap before chop it

Have you ever considered that first thing that comes to your mind is too obvious for others? Have you checked it, have you ever read change notes from patches regarding how mine supports works in w11?