Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby flashshark » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm

LostJustice wrote:Factions do craft for month or even two months. Again looks like you don’t know. Quality for curious does not raise that fast. When considering q400 vs 500 is very minimal difference due to quality formula but of course you probably didn’t calculate this. Silk q doesn’t really matter. Other things raise it more but I guess you didn’t know that either. Yikes.

And you again comparing wrong things here. I did not say a player shuffling around a house vs a cb stack. If you are going to compare a cb stack bot vs cb stack player the difference is small. A bot storage pathing vs a player storage pathing is much bigger difference. Don’t miss quote me to make your argument work. Yikes.

And no you don’t use Mirkwood because it drains your exp faster and there is better alternatives. But again you are new and don’t know that. And yes it does take time to go through 200+ cbs bot or not. Hence why I prefer sorting normally. But you seem to know what your doing (clearly not). Yikes.


Q400 vs Q500 is not the same as q10 vs q100.
I said a player shuffling around a house vs a bot shuffling around a house, and compared it to a bot reading through stacked cupboards vs a player sorting through stacked cupboards.
Mirkwood was a random curiosity name that came to mind.

You're telling me of grinding 30k stats yet you study the same curiosities for 2 months.

I'm clearly being trolled, I won't reply to you any more.
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby LostJustice » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:51 pm

flashshark wrote:
LostJustice wrote:Factions do craft for month or even two months. Again looks like you don’t know. Quality for curious does not raise that fast. When considering q400 vs 500 is very minimal difference due to quality formula but of course you probably didn’t calculate this. Silk q doesn’t really matter. Other things raise it more but I guess you didn’t know that either. Yikes.

And you again comparing wrong things here. I did not say a player shuffling around a house vs a cb stack. If you are going to compare a cb stack bot vs cb stack player the difference is small. A bot storage pathing vs a player storage pathing is much bigger difference. Don’t miss quote me to make your argument work. Yikes.

And no you don’t use Mirkwood because it drains your exp faster and there is better alternatives. But again you are new and don’t know that. And yes it does take time to go through 200+ cbs bot or not. Hence why I prefer sorting normally. But you seem to know what your doing (clearly not). Yikes.


Q400 vs Q500 is not the same as q10 vs q100.
I said a player shuffling around a house vs a bot shuffling around a house, and compared it to a bot reading through stacked cupboards vs a player sorting through stacked cupboards.
Mirkwood was a random curiosity name that came to mind.

You're telling me of grinding 30k stats yet you study the same curiosities for 2 months.

I'm clearly being trolled, I won't reply to you any more.


People are way past the q10 mark in first week and the gains between 10 and 100 is not the same rate as 400 to 500. Arguably depending on the curious most large groups are past q100 within first month at the latest. And yes in fact we do study the same things for long periods of time. Idea is to maintain LPH. In most cases, just studying anything at all puts you ahead of the game since a lot of people just stop studying. So really just maintaining any curious is fine. But again you seem to know what you are doing. Yikes.

Ever try crafting curious for 20+ accounts / people? You should try it sometime.
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby AtoB » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:22 pm

LostJustice wrote:And to say there is thousands and millions of items on a stack is also major yikes because now you don’t understand anti ddos mechanics. You can’t send messages too fast to a server otherwise they get ignored. A bot can open cbs probably a little faster than a player but not by much because of this so opening and going through them at once isn’t true.

The bot has to index the stack once per session, then it can idle a(nother) character next to it to keep the area (and with it the objIDs) loaded so it'll be deterministic in opening the exact one container it needs to access.

Claiming that this exploit does not allow a bot to be orders of magnitude faster, both than a player accessing the stack and a bot having to walk the same amounts of cupboards, is either uninformed or manipulative.
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby fallout » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:32 pm

wonder-ass wrote:just manually click them open its like 10seconds of extra effort you guys are retarded.

Its my understanding there's no limit, you can have 100 cupboards, just click them open lel
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby LostJustice » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:44 pm

AtoB wrote:
LostJustice wrote:And to say there is thousands and millions of items on a stack is also major yikes because now you don’t understand anti ddos mechanics. You can’t send messages too fast to a server otherwise they get ignored. A bot can open cbs probably a little faster than a player but not by much because of this so opening and going through them at once isn’t true.

The bot has to index the stack once per session, then it can idle a(nother) character next to it to keep the area (and with it the objIDs) loaded so it'll be deterministic in opening the exact one container it needs to access.

Claiming that this exploit does not allow a bot to be orders of magnitude faster, both than a player accessing the stack and a bot having to walk the same amounts of cupboards, is either uninformed or manipulative.


Try keeping a client logged in for long periods of a time. Usually switching or closing clients too much to bother with this. Never mind random crashes that still happen. And if you stack them correctly still not an issue. And in most cases there is better approaches than making one giant cb stack.
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby RickyRio » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:15 pm

This bug completely negates a major limiting factor of large scale production (space/travel time/organization) for food/silk/curio crafting, and as such should be fixed. any argument beyond that is encouraging hidden mechanics that only benefit exploiters and thus harm non exploiting players. jorb/loftar please fix before world reset.
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby shubla » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:22 pm

Just ban people for abusing these, make sure to ban the accounts that have hats etc. in them so it would actually hurt. ban also all their villagers, so then people try to avoid being in villages with abusers in the future.
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby Artemiswhb » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:33 pm

shubla wrote:Just ban people for abusing these, make sure to ban the accounts that have hats etc. in them so it would actually hurt. ban also all their villagers, so then people try to avoid being in villages with abusers in the future.

Or you know fix it instead of punishing people for using a bug that is now(and has been for forever but okay) in the open and hasn't been fixed for the 2+ years it has been known. If a bug has been in the game for so long of course people are going to use it. Just like the tanning tub band-aid "bug".
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby kmarad » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:20 pm

I can't believe that people are still discussing the bot advantage created by this exploit.
Either you don't know how to code, either you do know, and you also know that you are lying. :roll:

But let's do some pedagogy here, assuming you are honest noobs ;)

First, in this thread, we talk a lot about cupboards, but according to the OP, the exploit is usable for any kind of lift-able object.
So that means that study desks, htables, tables, cauldrons, garden pots, cheese racks, etc... are all subject to the same bug.
The exploit is manually usable for cupboards because they have an open state. So you can open multiple without using bots. But what about all the others lift-able objects ?
Players can probably use maybe 5% (?) of the functional area covered by the exploit.
Of course this exploit really starts to shine when you use bots.

Then, and let's focus on the cupboard, since that's the only thing non-botters can do (unless there is something else ?).
Imagine having 2000 stacked cupboards.
- On the bot side, it's 2000 messages to send to the server - basically : right_click(cupboard_gob_id)
That would be sent in like 30 - 40ms, maybe 1 second if you are nice with the game server.
The server then answers with widget creations (windows, and items having their window as parent widget).
Then your script can already play with items in it, sort them, or pull whatever you need...
- On the player side, it's 2000 right click on a door knob.
Let's say you are particularly excited and do 10 clicks per second. That's already three full minutes, just to - excitedly - open your cupboards.
Then you have a screen full of cupboards inventories, have fun trying to sort or access anything from that.

Also off-topic, but this exploit profits mainly the biggest factions, and not only because of bots.
When you don't have much to craft you don't need this exploit. I mean you'll craft 30 easter eggs, that'll fill the dedicated easter egg cupboard in your curios room, your village will feed on it for a week. And when the cupboard is empty you repeat the process.
Now for big factions, the problem with that, is that you may want to make a thousand, just to not bother with it for a while. So you'd need lots of cupboards to stock that. Plus at some point those dedicated cupboard have some unused room, which is quite inefficient.
Why would you make a bigger place, harder to claim, harder to build, harder to defend, to be able to store more at once ? Infinite storage exploit ftw.

Not only this bug breaks the game, and non-wizards are the one who again pay the bill.
But it's also a wonderful tool for the cheaters already most powerful factions, thus imbalancing the game much more than any combat balancing patch can fix.

Then I don't know why Jorb and Loftar don't put this on the red list. As a developer I'd be quite concerned knowing that some players exploit something as big as that.
I think I won't subscribe at all in w12 if this isnt fixed before world's birth. Since using it might lead to a nuke, and not using it will lead to being crushed by people using it...
Honestly gods, fix your game before adding more content and spawning new worlds.
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Re: Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

Postby kmarad » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:38 pm

I must say, I like that devs are cool with wizardry in this game.
I enjoy diving into H&H protocol and coding some stuff, it's very interesting I feel like I could put it on my resume.
Having an advantage because of wizardry skills is fine imho. You put time into coding your stuff and get some profit from it. That's fine by me.
But really this exploit is game breaking, even as a wizard I don't like it. And trust me, I could abuse it more than most around here.
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