Cupboards stacked on each other inside building

[flashshark]

Just to clearing some things, this bug has been reported before. There is no thread on the report because it was through Private Message. At least for HH we found the bug after raiding and destroying Maid Cafe and as soon as we found it we reported it. Thing is, it was never fixed.

Thank you for giving an actual answer that doesn't defend the bug. Thing is, "through Private Message" and "everybody knows about it" are two different things. Those that *defend* the bug (not you) have given the latter argument.

Second, you do not need a bot script to use these stacks at all. You can use your hand completely to do this. This gives no advantage to bots or players other than the fact you don’t have to move when crafting or doing something mundane.

Because clearly those that do not have access to bots to help them getting 1 million items to store in 200 stacked cupboards will surely be hurt by having the 200 stacked cupboards removed, especially when 90% of the community didn't even know about this exploit anyway.

What I'm saying is, this exploit helps speeding up bots by 250% while it helps humans with....what?

I never said you are not able to access those cupboards. I have clearly accessed all 51 cupboards in the video I have posted, without using any bot or third party software.

Third, people had bot clients before this bug was discovered. Pathing between cupboards has already been solved and tbh is still used since this doesn’t work in majority of cases.

And as snugglesnail has already given the perfect example, this exploit allowed the bot to skip walking through lots of cupboards inside different buildings to craft thousands of food items.
The devs are actively working towards reducing the need of having such bots in order to become better players. In w10 people had 30k stats, now they had 3k stats. I haven't played during w10 long enough to reach such stats, but I will assume that botters had a much higher advantage back then than they do now, because now you can't eat that much food and you don't have to bot that much food (I am talking about the farming process, not the storing in cupboards).

Also to the OP you keep making a lot of slippery slope assumptions and connections on your statements. You say every bug fixed makes the game better and stops benefiting botters / faction players. Here is an example where that is false. The tanning tub bug where you could put a tanning tub inside a boat to tan faster. A lot of people used this bug and enjoyed it. Made life especially easier for hermits. As for factions they had so many tubs usually or so many leather already done that they didn’t care. But as for hermits or solo players it was a nice time saver. Bug got fixed and a lot of people got upset and some probably even quit. Saying this bug is solely benefit of botters is quite incorrect and I believe that bringing bots into this equation is quite off topic for this post. Bots do not care if the cbs are stacked or not.

Because clearly bots and bigger factions were not able to use tanning tubs and rowboats, as they were forbidden by the magic powers Odin or something. I am sure those that have quit the game, when that bug was fixed, were hermits or smaller/newer villages that clearly had known of that exploit, just like everyone knows every exploit apparently before they even start playing the game, or just as I have known of this cupboard one and have used it throughout the entire life of world 11, because "it was public, jordancoles showed it in a stream in 2015 before I even knew of hafen lmao".

But then again, perhaps the game should be all about hidden vague mechanics, that I should figure out myself, and the devs should clearly not fix the unintended mechanics, but rather let those that are not actively trying to find every little exploit suffer.
I mean, I don't even understand why they are actively giving us tools to make bots less meaningful honestly. For example, farming should be point and click, gather/plant every single crop one by one.

And it has been reported by faction players before, not every bug is a thread. So please stop assuming everyone that knows this bug is trying to protect this bug or hasn’t reported it. As basic game theory states, the player will always try to take the shortest path from point A to B if such a path exists. If it isn’t fixed it will be used but question is if it should be fixed or maybe the issue is containers themselves and better storage mechanics are really needed for this game.

Never once have I said in this entire thread that everyone that knows this bug is trying to protect it or that they haven't reported it. You, for instance, are not one of the people protecting this bug by telling me how a hermit will totally use this because he surely needs so much storage. That's literally the worst possible lie someone could use to defend this exploit.
Those that are actively trying to protect this bug, trying to blame me for revealing this bug are at the same time the people that are saying it has been known by the entire community for 5 years and that it actually helps hermits and small villages rather than mass producing bots that actually do use that kind of space.

But yes, keep attacking me for reporting exploits, even if you don't defend them, because clearly I'm the problem here.

[fallout]

Stop saying it doesn't help out scripts. It 100% speeds up crafting, using the exploit and not having a script to use it would be idiotic. You don't have fill your screen with cupboard windows, you could have the script search 200cbs in the blink of an eye.

It certainly is a botter's dream, even though the majority are saying the contrary.

[azrid]

No threads about this exploit means its not as widely known as some suggest.
The fact that faction members are defending it in this thread comes off really bad.
There is no public script to make using this exploit easier.

There have been people who have released clients with features that dramatically decrease the gap between botters and non botters.
Ardennes should get a statue next world for giving people "eat all" button in world 10.

[wonder-ass]

just manually click them open its like 10seconds of extra effort you guys are retarded.

[azrid]

Defending exploits and them being mandatory if you want to be competitive gives this game a really bad reputation.
People get put off by this kind of attitude and if nothing is done about it.
Its hard to talk to people who are interested or just looking at the game about this. Thats an instant pass on the game for a lot of them.

[LostJustice]

more nonsense

You keep bring bots into the discussion of this. Bots are not a reason for an exploit or a bug to be fixed. Usually nerfs like to pepper address this. Fixing a botting issue is an entirely different thread. You also keep over estimating the use of this with bots. This is rarely used because in most used cases this can be worse for botting if you ever tried it. Also, thing is Snail is right a hermit can use this to craft his curious or what he wants. Snail by no means is wrong about that. There is some hermits that I know use this to craft. There is no distinct difference that this bug has between players and bots.

I think instead of going on some bot rampage you need to clarify why this should be fixed or how it should be fixed rather than going down a random rabbit hole and continuously make assumptions about something you clearly know very little about.

Also you keep making assumptions and fallacies. Try to discuss an actual topic rather than since the Sky is blue then bots must be taking over the world nonsense.

Also with speeding up bots, it doesn’t. Bot perform at same rate or slower than an active player.

And also with the stats, that nerf probably made it worse. More people burn out faster because they can’t raise stats. And tbh the gap between factions and normal players for FEP is still the same just a different scale which is usually the issue with that, not the size of the numbers themselves. To say 3k is a success to 30k is actually silly.

[flashshark]

more nonsense

You keep bring bots into the discussion of this. Bots are not a reason for an exploit or a bug to be fixed. Usually nerfs like to pepper address this. Fixing a botting issue is an entirely different thread. You also keep over estimating the use of this with bots. This is rarely used because in most used cases this can be worse for botting if you ever tried it. Also, thing is Snail is right a hermit can use this to craft his curious or what he wants. Snail by no means is wrong about that. There is some hermits that I know use this to craft. There is no distinct difference that this bug has between players and bots.

I think instead of going on some bot rampage you need to clarify why this should be fixed or how it should be fixed rather than going down a random rabbit hole and continuously make assumptions about something you clearly know very little about.

Also you keep making assumptions and fallacies. Try to discuss an actual topic rather than since the Sky is blue then bots must be taking over the world nonsense.

Also with speeding up bots, it doesn’t. Bot perform at same rate or slower than an active player.

And also with the stats, that nerf probably made it worse. More people burn out faster because they can’t raise stats. And tbh the gap between factions and normal players for FEP is still the same just a different scale which is usually the issue with that, not the size of the numbers themselves. To say 3k is a success to 30k is actually silly.

Some of the other people you keep ignoring in this thread and I have given arguments to which you continuously avoid replying to (and you are not the only one who does this). Misquoting me with "more nonsense" shows how mature you want to be in regards to this discussion, and you continuously blame me for bringing bots in this discussion, while you guys have now avoided telling me about 5 times how this exploit is more useful to players rather than bots.
I'm not saying fixing an exploit diminishes the advantage bots bring over everything else.

I am saying that THIS exploit not only grants those that don't know how to reproduce it a pretty ugly disadvantage, but also helps with storing 12800+++ items on a single tile with just 200 cupboards for those that DO know how to do it. I haven't tested the limit of this exploit, but I suppose you can tell me what it is, since your hermit friends surely need access to twelve thousand items and at the same time, while they can also sort through them in milliseconds, because a hermit does indeed need to craft with 12800 individual items, without even looking at what they actually use from those cupboards. A hermit. A HERMIT.

Let's say I, a human being, would use this exploit. Would I be able to go through 200+++ cupboards at once? No, unless I just drop a bunch of junk inside of them, I don't care about the quality of the junk, and I only craft maybe one item out of those.

Now let's see how a bot can do with those 200+++ cupboards:

*Silk. (Self explainatory) - While I, a human, could try managing silk like this, a bot will still have an even better edge over this. This makes mass producing easier for the bots, not for me. I can't just sort through 200 entire cupboards in milliseconds.
*Storing millions of items that have been gathered through botting. Stop saying a hermit has tens of thousands of items. They do not.
*Iterating through all those items and compiling a list of items it has found inside those cupboards, the number of items, the qualities, etc., and being able to extract whatever you want just by telling the bot what item you want from there. You could literally have a search function with this bot, virtually removing the need of using more than just one grid for the entire storage of your whole village.
*An eating bot? Place a table next to this bottomless void and eat as much as you can. You just need to click the button from the table, the item doesn't have to be on the table to give you the FEP/Hunger bonus. While a human being can not go through 200 windows with 64 items in each, to eat a different food item every time, a bot can.

I would also like to repeat that this exploit works with every single liftable item in this game. I can only wonder if you can change cheese rack models clientside to also have an animated piece that moves, in order to access all of them.

Now to answer your question in regards to me suggesting a way to fix this. I have in the past suggested ways of fixing other exploits like cheesing animals with boats without taking any damage by sending a Private Message to jorbtar. But the problem is, I don't know how jorbtar have scripted this game.
My suggestion would've been to check if a cupboard's hitbox is overlapping another hitbox once it gets dropped on the ground, and if so, destroy the dropped cupboard. But I don't know enough about this game's engine to know if that is even possible to implement without a lot of pointless work.

And your final comment on the 30k vs 3k. If the only reason for which you play this game is to mindlessly grind stats, and wish that there will never be other purposes in late game, I'd suggest just opening up a calculator and adding +1 every now and then. Mechanics have been added to slow down a bot that could do +1 every millisecond while you, a human, can only press the 2 buttons so fast.

[LostJustice]

more nonsense

You keep bring bots into the discussion of this. Bots are not a reason for an exploit or a bug to be fixed. Usually nerfs like to pepper address this. Fixing a botting issue is an entirely different thread. You also keep over estimating the use of this with bots. This is rarely used because in most used cases this can be worse for botting if you ever tried it. Also, thing is Snail is right a hermit can use this to craft his curious or what he wants. Snail by no means is wrong about that. There is some hermits that I know use this to craft. There is no distinct difference that this bug has between players and bots.

I think instead of going on some bot rampage you need to clarify why this should be fixed or how it should be fixed rather than going down a random rabbit hole and continuously make assumptions about something you clearly know very little about.

Also you keep making assumptions and fallacies. Try to discuss an actual topic rather than since the Sky is blue then bots must be taking over the world nonsense.

Also with speeding up bots, it doesn’t. Bot perform at same rate or slower than an active player.

And also with the stats, that nerf probably made it worse. More people burn out faster because they can’t raise stats. And tbh the gap between factions and normal players for FEP is still the same just a different scale which is usually the issue with that, not the size of the numbers themselves. To say 3k is a success to 30k is actually silly.

Some of the other people you keep ignoring in this thread and I have given arguments to which you continuously avoid replying to (and you are not the only one who does this). Misquoting me with "more nonsense" shows how mature you want to be in regards to this discussion, and you continuously blame me for bringing bots in this discussion, while you guys have now avoided telling me about 5 times how this exploit is more useful to players rather than bots.
I'm not saying fixing an exploit diminishes the advantage bots bring over everything else.

I am saying that THIS exploit not only grants those that don't know how to reproduce it a pretty ugly disadvantage, but also helps with storing 12800+++ items on a single tile with just 200 cupboards for those that DO know how to do it. I haven't tested the limit of this exploit, but I suppose you can tell me what it is, since your hermit friends surely need access to twelve thousand items and at the same time, while they can also sort through them in milliseconds, because a hermit does indeed need to craft with 12800 individual items, without even looking at what they actually use from those cupboards. A hermit. A HERMIT.

Let's say I, a human being, would use this exploit. Would I be able to go through 200+++ cupboards at once? No, unless I just drop a bunch of junk inside of them, I don't care about the quality of the junk, and I only craft maybe one item out of those.

Now let's see how a bot can do with those 200+++ cupboards:

*Silk. (Self explainatory) - While I, a human, could try managing silk like this, a bot will still have an even better edge over this. This makes mass producing easier for the bots, not for me. I can't just sort through 200 entire cupboards in milliseconds.
*Storing millions of items that have been gathered through botting. Stop saying a hermit has tens of thousands of items. They do not.
*Iterating through all those items and compiling a list of items it has found inside those cupboards, the number of items, the qualities, etc., and being able to extract whatever you want just by telling the bot what item you want from there. You could literally have a search function with this bot, virtually removing the need of using more than just one grid for the entire storage of your whole village.
*An eating bot? Place a table next to this bottomless void and eat as much as you can. You just need to click the button from the table, the item doesn't have to be on the table to give you the FEP/Hunger bonus. While a human being can not go through 200 windows with 64 items in each, to eat a different food item every time, a bot can.

I would also like to repeat that this exploit works with every single liftable item in this game. I can only wonder if you can change cheese rack models clientside to also have an animated piece that moves, in order to access all of them.

Now to answer your question in regards to me suggesting a way to fix this. I have in the past suggested ways of fixing other exploits like cheesing animals with boats without taking any damage by sending a Private Message to jorbtar. But the problem is, I don't know how jorbtar have scripted this game.
My suggestion would've been to check if a cupboard's hitbox is overlapping another hitbox once it gets dropped on the ground, and if so, destroy the dropped cupboard. But I don't know enough about this game's engine to know if that is even possible to implement without a lot of pointless work.

And your final comment on the 30k vs 3k. If the only reason for which you play this game is to mindlessly grind stats, and wish that there will never be other purposes in late game, I'd suggest just opening up a calculator and adding +1 every now and then. Mechanics have been added to slow down a bot that could do +1 every millisecond while you, a human, can only press the 2 buttons so fast.

I answered them by answering you. I did not ignore them. You assumed earlier that my comment about needing a script to open them was directed at you. No it was directed at the ones who thought you need a script. Second you are now assuming you need a bot to sort through 200+ cupboards at any rate. Well that is also false. Pretty easy to click through them like a magazine assuming you stacked them correctly which by your screen shots you clearly didn’t. Also, yes people craft on thousands of items at a time. It isn’t an uncommon practice for people to craft cbs of curious for a week to two months at a time. It really isn’t but since you are new to this game it seems like a lot to you. Hermits do that factions do that a lot of people that is not exclusive to botters or faction players. And to craft you don’t even need to go through them. Just fill the stacks up and craft. It goes straight to you inventory. Big yikes there, I have to sort through so much to find what I crafted when it goes straight to my inventory!

Also eating tbh is better done by hand if you feast properly. You don’t just spam eat a thousands of one food in a sit in. Which obviously indicates you never really feasted at any major level if you think this. Especially with the current food system. Also with silk the crafting works as stated above. Another yikes.

And to say there is thousands and millions of items on a stack is also major yikes because now you don’t understand anti ddos mechanics. You can’t send messages too fast to a server otherwise they get ignored. A bot can open cbs probably a little faster than a player but not by much because of this so opening and going through them at once isn’t true. To go through the cbs isn’t hard either. Going through them with a bot vs a player is about the same as a bot pathing to memorized cbs vs a player trying to shuffle around a house figuring out where his stuff is. Bot will be better because it memorized which cb where a player with faulty memory wont unless they spend a lot time organizing. A player does save time regardless if it on a stack because they don’t have a run around and this benefit does go over to bots because they don’t have to run around either. But to say it give bots a major advantage is simply not true. It more likely to give an active player an advantage since they can mass craft easier. Quite frankly player is probably more at a disadvantage vs a bot if cb stacking was fixed with current systems.

And as for the stats, that is a basic mechanic since hafen has been released. If you think that then you really need to consider finding a new game because this game is really not for you. If stats are infinite, someone will grind them. And as for pvp in this regard, you want the best advantage against another person that you can obtain. If you think it just a bot adding numbers to a char you quite wrong. People spend a lot of time figuring out what to minimize and maximize. Often times without bots. If you really think it just a cookie clicker game though then be my guest and be a spruce cap. Doesn’t bother me. When you slow down the FEP gain for higher level people you also slow the gains of everyone else. It literally nerfs everyone. A cleverly designed system can make it more balanced but it unlikely. As long as they are infinite you will have a hard core faction player meta where they have much higher stats because guess what they play the game... big yikes who knew getting stats involved actually playing and knowing how to play a game. 30k stat vs a 300 stat sprucecap vs a 3k vs a 30 stat sprucecap is pretty much the same gap.

[flashshark]

I answered them by answering you. I did not ignore them. You assumed earlier that my comment about needing a script to open them was directed at you. No it was directed at the ones who thought you need a script. Second you are now assuming you need a bot to sort through 200+ cupboards at any rate. Well that is also false. Pretty easy to click through them like a magazine assuming you stacked them correctly which by your screen shots you clearly didn’t. Also, yes people craft on thousands of items at a time. It isn’t an uncommon practice for people to craft cbs of curious for a week to two months at a time. It really isn’t but since you are new to this game it seems like a lot to you. Hermits do that factions do that a lot of people that is not exclusive to botters or faction players. And to craft you don’t even need to go through them. Just fill the stacks up and craft. It goes straight to you inventory. Big yikes there, I have to sort through so much to find what I crafted when it goes straight to my inventory!

Also eating tbh is better done by hand if you feast properly. You don’t just spam eat a thousands of one food in a sit in. Which obviously indicates you never really feasted at any major level if you think this. Especially with the current food system. Also with silk the crafting works as stated above. Another yikes.

And to say there is thousands and millions of items on a stack is also major yikes because now you don’t understand anti ddos mechanics. You can’t send messages too fast to a server otherwise they get ignored. A bot can open cbs probably a little faster than a player but not by much because of this so opening and going through them at once isn’t true. To go through the cbs isn’t hard either. Going through them with a bot vs a player is about the same as a bot pathing to memorized cbs vs a player trying to shuffle around a house figuring out where his stuff is. Bot will be better because it memorized which cb where a player with faulty memory wont unless they spend a lot time organizing. A player does save time regardless if it on a stack because they don’t have a run around and this benefit does go over to bots because they don’t have to run around either. But to say it give bots a major advantage is simply not true. It more likely to give an active player an advantage since they can mass craft easier.

No sane faction will craft curiosities for months, as quality will continuously increase (and you also need many raw materials in order craft for that amount of time). If you're part of a decent village and you use the same ol q100 curiosities by the time you get q200 stuff, big yickes.
The perfect magazine you are describing there is different from the said cupboards. You can never open those cupboards in the same order, so the "pages" will always shuffle.
With silk unless you don't care about increasing the quality, you will need to grab only the highest cocoons if you want the highest moths to hatch. I'd love to see you sort through 200 cupboards of random qualities to show me how wrong I am. Also yickes if your village doesn't want them to increase in quality, again.
I haven't said you're actively moving the thousands of items around, I'm saying the bot can just read them once and compile a list clientsided, without sending anything to the server. You're not sending any packet to the server. And when you tell the bot to extract that one item you want it to take, it just reads (the already open cupboards) again and stops when it finds the item, and just grabs it to the inventory. That's one information sent to the server, it's not DDoS.

Going through them with a bot vs a player is about the same as a bot pathing to memorized cbs vs a player trying to shuffle around a house figuring out where his stuff is.

But having a bot read through 200 cupboards in a second while a player has to shuffle around a one grid block of cupboards to figure out where his stuff is is different?
I assure you people actually know better where things are since they don't just mindlessly drop every single item in whatever cupboards they have. Feels like you haven't even bothered with storing any item ever, yet I'm the one who hasn't played this game. Even if I don't bother that much with sorting, if something is in the cellar of that one stonestead, it'll be just faster to check 10 cupboards rather than going mindlessly through 200+++ unsorted cupboards.

Oh and please tell me about how you use an overwhelming stack of cupboards to craft items without even checking the quality of the items you use from them. I'm sure the strongest villages mass produce q10 mirkwood rather than minmaxing curiosity LP by using raw materials of higher qualities. After all, that's how they have 8m LP when I only have 5m LP, by mass producing q10 curiosities and using them for months at a time.

[LostJustice]

I answered them by answering you. I did not ignore them. You assumed earlier that my comment about needing a script to open them was directed at you. No it was directed at the ones who thought you need a script. Second you are now assuming you need a bot to sort through 200+ cupboards at any rate. Well that is also false. Pretty easy to click through them like a magazine assuming you stacked them correctly which by your screen shots you clearly didn’t. Also, yes people craft on thousands of items at a time. It isn’t an uncommon practice for people to craft cbs of curious for a week to two months at a time. It really isn’t but since you are new to this game it seems like a lot to you. Hermits do that factions do that a lot of people that is not exclusive to botters or faction players. And to craft you don’t even need to go through them. Just fill the stacks up and craft. It goes straight to you inventory. Big yikes there, I have to sort through so much to find what I crafted when it goes straight to my inventory!

Also eating tbh is better done by hand if you feast properly. You don’t just spam eat a thousands of one food in a sit in. Which obviously indicates you never really feasted at any major level if you think this. Especially with the current food system. Also with silk the crafting works as stated above. Another yikes.

And to say there is thousands and millions of items on a stack is also major yikes because now you don’t understand anti ddos mechanics. You can’t send messages too fast to a server otherwise they get ignored. A bot can open cbs probably a little faster than a player but not by much because of this so opening and going through them at once isn’t true. To go through the cbs isn’t hard either. Going through them with a bot vs a player is about the same as a bot pathing to memorized cbs vs a player trying to shuffle around a house figuring out where his stuff is. Bot will be better because it memorized which cb where a player with faulty memory wont unless they spend a lot time organizing. A player does save time regardless if it on a stack because they don’t have a run around and this benefit does go over to bots because they don’t have to run around either. But to say it give bots a major advantage is simply not true. It more likely to give an active player an advantage since they can mass craft easier.

No sane faction will craft curiosities for months, as quality will continuously increase (and you also need many raw materials in order craft for that amount of time). If you're part of a decent village and you use the same ol q100 curiosities by the time you get q200 stuff, big yickes.
The perfect magazine you are describing there is different from the said cupboards. You can never open those cupboards in the same order, so the "pages" will always shuffle.
With silk unless you don't care about increasing the quality, you will need to grab only the highest cocoons if you want the highest moths to hatch. I'd love to see you sort through 200 cupboards of random qualities to show me how wrong I am. Also yickes if your village doesn't want them to increase in quality, again.
I haven't said you're actively moving the thousands of items around, I'm saying the bot can just read them once and compile a list clientsided, without sending anything to the server. You're not sending any packet to the server. And when you tell the bot to extract that one item you want it to take, it just reads (the already open cupboards) again and stops when it finds the item, and just grabs it to the inventory. That's one information sent to the server, it's not DDoS.

Going through them with a bot vs a player is about the same as a bot pathing to memorized cbs vs a player trying to shuffle around a house figuring out where his stuff is.

But having a bot read through 200 cupboards in a second while a player has to shuffle around a one grid block of cupboards to figure out where his stuff is is different?
I assure you people actually know better where things are since they don't just mindlessly drop every single item in whatever cupboards they have. Feels like you haven't even bothered with storing any item ever, yet I'm the one who hasn't played this game. Even if I don't bother that much with sorting, if something is in the cellar of that one stonestead, it'll be just faster to check 10 cupboards rather than going mindlessly through 200+++ unsorted cupboards.

Oh and please tell me about how you use an overwhelming stack of cupboards to craft items without even checking the quality of the items you use from them. I'm sure the strongest villages mass produce q10 mirkwood rather than minmaxing curiosity LP by using raw materials of higher qualities. After all, that's how they have 8m LP when I only have 5m LP, by mass producing q10 curiosities and using them for months at a time.

Factions do craft for month or even two months. Again looks like you don’t know. Quality for curious does not raise that fast. When considering q400 vs 500 is very minimal difference due to quality formula but of course you probably didn’t calculate this. Silk q doesn’t really matter. Other things raise it more but I guess you didn’t know that either. Yikes.

And you again comparing wrong things here. I did not say a player shuffling around a house vs a cb stack. If you are going to compare a cb stack bot vs cb stack player the difference is small. A bot storage pathing vs a player storage pathing is much bigger difference. Don’t miss quote me to make your argument work. Yikes.

And no you don’t use Mirkwood because it drains your exp faster and there is better alternatives. But again you are new and don’t know that. And yes it does take time to go through 200+ cbs bot or not. Hence why I prefer sorting normally. But you seem to know what your doing (clearly not). Yikes.