Murder buff is a gift to factions and nobody else

[overtyped]

The murder buff of 20% more grievous is a really useful mechanic. On paper, its a cool mechanic that lets those who want to killers be at risk of being killed themselves, but only on paper.

In reality however, only an absolute moron would risk putting that debuff on their main when you can still fully utilize this buff at no risk to yourself.
This is the flaw, factions simply designate a no statted/unskilled throwaway murder alt (sometimes with pumped strength) to be the killer during a gank, while the others are just there to help the murder alt get to 100% openings.
This isn't just a possibility, or a random occurrence this. is. the. meta.

With little coordination, this usually can always result in a successful kill on hermits and noobs, which would otherwise be way harder to pull off. This is helped by the fact you made it ridiculously easy to abuse openings.
You can spam flex for dizzy on one character, while the other spams full circle for green. You can very easily get a hermit to 100% openings in those two without ko'ing, and once at near 100% opening, a 60% grievous 120% dmg full openings sting from the murder alt is all thats needed to one shot the hermit/newbie with minimal effort.

While this doesn't really affect anyone with decent con, or someone who can fight back, (because a pvper will prevent high openings---even if they realize they will lose, and they won't stay still long enough to be surrounded, which hermits and noobs are prone to doing.) I've even seen cases of hermits trying to surrender in the hopes of being spared, but the only thing they accomplish is staying still long enough for the gankers to get 100% openings before 1 shotting them with sting.
This all means actual pvpers aren't really threatened at all by this extra 20% grievous dmg being used on them.). If they are ko'd, it'll be from a lot of chip dmg wearing them down, not from two 100% opening deathblow stings.

As mentioned this is simply a huge boon to killing unoptimized/scared hermits, in a single encounter, because when noobs are being attacked, they are freaked out, which prevents them from thinking logically. They aren't thinking about their openings, only about running away. (This means even if they have a good amount of con, they are still dead meat!) lmao
Not sure why a mechanic was created solely to grief hermits and noobs, with no counter play against the throwaway murder alt, but I'm thankful it's in the game. Keep the updates coming lol

If you want a decent fix, create a niche skill/buff that allows you to knock yourself out automatically when any opening you have goes above 50%, this would save the casuals and non fighter hermits as long as they remember to enable the buff. Alternatively a skill that ko's you when you click it, but this seems less misclicky...

[Mr_Bober]

I totally agree with you.

I think it shouldn't be possible to one-shot some newbie or hermit like that, and I think the solution would be to limit this effect to statistics. Maybe below a certain score of CON*UA or CON*MC you can't get killed as easily?
If the number is low enough, any fighter (and some hunters maybe) would easily have a higher score than that, but any random hermit / non fighter character would be fine.

[Sevenless]

The overhit mechanic in general fucks anyone who doesn't understand openings and has low con.

I swear years ago loftar said he was going to limit it so the last hit doesn't do more SHP damage than you have left before KO, and I assumed that meant the HHP would be scaled to the SHP damage dealt. The fact that it isn't is the major killing factor.

All you need to do is x3 more damage (without murderous rage even) than they have HHP left to kill them on your last hit. That's really not hard against lowbie characters.

[MightySheep]

factions simply designate a no statted/unskilled throwaway murder alt to be the killer during a gank

This isn't just a possibility, or a random occurrence this. is. the. meta.

I always enjoy hearing random hermit say what is faction meta

Who exactly is doing this? where is the video or screenshots?

People almost never use murderous rage unless in some kind of 10v1 gank situation but why would you need an alt then? Normally its like whoever can do the fattest cleave with best b12 and highest strength

Murder is a gift to PvPers and no one else, like gj sherlock, you cracked this case wide open, whod have known murder is good for pvp factions, although none of them ever use it

[SnuggleSnail]

Ya'll retarded and OP is a trollpost.

That said, no faction player AFAIK has died to straight up combat since world 11, only dumbshit like getting trapped or raided pre-wall. Can we get flat 10% concussions and 50% grievous on everything else now that the crashes are gone? I don't want people to die a lot, but it's a lot more interesting when it's at least a risk.

[Sevenless]

Ya'll retarded and OP is a trollpost.

That said, no faction player AFAIK has died to straight up combat since world 11, only dumbshit like getting trapped or raided pre-wall. Can we get flat 10% concussions and 50% grievous on everything else now that the crashes are gone? I don't want people to die a lot, but it's a lot more interesting when it's at least a risk.

Yeah, I've patched up plenty of fighters who were playing during the crashes and getting dunked never meant more than a healing period. I had 0 fear the fighters would die.

That said, I think we've run into the old trad vs change situation again. PvP death only really impacts new players and mechanic ignorant players. We don't want new players getting griefed out of the game more than necessary.

[SnuggleSnail]

Half of the nabs I aggro full die because they were picking up crabs or whatever. Slightly increasing the chance of nabs dying while also raising the chance of a competent fighter dying above 0 would probably discourage at least some of the nabslayers from nabslaying, at least sometimes.

Not that my argument is at all "think of the nabs", I just think it would be more fun for people to die sometimes.

[Sevenless]

Half of the nabs I aggro full die because they were picking up crabs or whatever. I think the nabs having a 50% chance of dying and the PVPer having a 10% chance of dying will result in less nab deaths than the nabs having a 30% chance of dying and the PVPers having a 0% chance of dying.

I feel like pushing nab death rate to 50% per pvp encounter will be a net negative for the game. It already feels too high to me atm.

Surely there's a way to make this mechanic introduce some element of danger in PvP without cranking the hermit slaughterhouse up.

[SnuggleSnail]

hot take: in a PVP game if you're bad you should get shit on

I have had friends from other games play haven for less than 6 hours total and already be good enough at running that I could never KO them 1v1 if all they were trying to do is escape. I'm not the best chaser in the world, but easily top 1%.

No mechanic that doesn't kneecap the entire premise of the game completely will save the nabs if they remain as forever shit as they have been forever. There needs to be some FORCED entry into PVP if you want them to not die for free constantly.

Anyway, bring back death for fighters

[Massa]

Half of the nabs I aggro full die because they were picking up crabs or whatever. I think the nabs having a 50% chance of dying and the PVPer having a 10% chance of dying will result in less nab deaths than the nabs having a 30% chance of dying and the PVPers having a 0% chance of dying.

I feel like pushing nab death rate to 50% per pvp encounter will be a net negative for the game. It already feels too high to me atm.

Surely there's a way to make this mechanic introduce some element of danger in PvP without cranking the hermit slaughterhouse up.

It used to be a 100% guarantee.