lockpicking should be at least a theft crime

[SiO2]

Right now it is just a rummaging.

[loftar]

Why shouldn't it be?

[Massa]

Why shouldn't it be?

it is not and it should be

in fact, it should be vandalism, if the lock is destroyed in the process. a picked lock is worse than a mere tresspassing, it is breaking and entering. criminal intent. surreptitious entry.

readd siege by the way

[loftar]

it is not and it should be

I meant why it shouldn't be rummaging, as it said in the contents of the OP. Since the lock is not destroyed in the process, and so doesn't really change the state of anything in itself, I thought it makes sense that it's just rummaging. Seems to me that Theft should be reserved for when you use the fact that you picked the lock to actually steal something, no?

[SiO2]

Ok, here is problem. I tried to set up accessible palisaded personal claim with private house (minehole in house). Public threspass+rummaging to open anti-boar fences behind visitor gates and lock for house... however lockpicking turned out to be a rummaging crime too, which made impossible convenient and theft-proof public pclaim design. To be honest I guess final decision should be based on ways how people use locks in other places. So far "rummaging" locks looks completely useless to me, but may be I miss some other ways how people use it?

[vatas]

Root issue: same permission (rummaging) applies to two wildly different things, you can't allow one and disallow the other. (Opening any unlocked gate on the claim, and lockpicking anything on the claim.)

[jock]

Or we can get more perms LIke lock picking, Lifting, leading etc.

The big problem for many markets or public tools is the lack of specifics on permissions.

you can make a cauldron public to use but can't take anything out of it or that theft but with theft they can pick up the cauldron.

At best it becomes a juggling act and guessing game with the current limited permission system.

[r0ck4ev3r]

it is not and it should be

I meant why it shouldn't be rummaging, as it said in the contents of the OP. Since the lock is not destroyed in the process, and so doesn't really change the state of anything in itself, I thought it makes sense that it's just rummaging. Seems to me that Theft should be reserved for when you use the fact that you picked the lock to actually steal something, no?

Would concur: picking a lock is, at worst, an act of rummaging.

[Clemins]

it is not and it should be

I meant why it shouldn't be rummaging, as it said in the contents of the OP. Since the lock is not destroyed in the process, and so doesn't really change the state of anything in itself, I thought it makes sense that it's just rummaging. Seems to me that Theft should be reserved for when you use the fact that you picked the lock to actually steal something, no?

Would concur: picking a lock is, at worst, an act of rummaging.

Why hasn't anyone use this as defense in a breaking and entering court case yet?
Oh, right, because breaking and entering typically displays intent of a "greater" crime such as burglary, aka "theft"

Either way I don't care, if loftar says it's rummaging then that's cool too, redhand is hella annoying enough as it is.

[Zephroze]

Irl lockpicking is considered breaking and entering, whereas just entering is trespassing.

The lock also stays irl, but breaking into a place is by no means an innocent act where trespassing could be.

Rummaging simply means looking into something. Picking a lock is not simply looking into something. You're bypassing a security feature by force. I'd call it vandalism.