thingwals vs pvp vs expansions

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: thingwals vs pvp vs expansions

Postby MightySheep » Tue May 18, 2021 10:41 pm

I dont see dummy realms as much of an issue tbh. So you guys have 4 different realms all with almost no buffs, so what? Having more realms and more challenge windows still doesnt mean you can win the fights for territory. The problem as I said before is there literally hasnt been any fights for territory yet. Not 1 kingdom has challenged another kingdom. Thats not for lack of desire for pvp though. I think enough people still want pvp that if it did happen it would create pvp. However territory expansion has been timegated to the point that no kingdom even borders each other yet and probably wont for a while. We get zero information about challenges against unclaimed territories, no interface for thingwalls, no functional territory map. So despite people wanting to pvp, nothing in the game creates it. Literally all we need is a meteor thing where its like "go here and fight at this time" but no.

Also I think even when we get to the point that we can actually fight over thingwalls, it will probably only take a couple of losses and the inevitable line will be "we never cared about realms" and they will give up because they lose nothing by not competing, in fact in the case of balders bra they actually have incentive to let us win because our buffs are better. That makes no sense.

Compare it to games like eve, face of mankind, atlas or albion with similar concepts where owning a territory comes with huge tax benefits and other stuff.

Honestly I think the system still basically works, people are still all expanding when they can expand from what I can tell and eventually we might fight over a territory. Its just too damn slow. Meteors last world gave us 1 big fight per month guaranteed.
User avatar
MightySheep
 
Posts: 1928
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:18 pm

Re: thingwals vs pvp vs expansions

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed May 19, 2021 12:11 am

TBH, it's news to me that there are even four realms in the game. I'm not involved in a realm this world, different autism project. The system is just so blatantly broken at even a conceptual level that that it triggers me I will be forced to interact with it if I ever care about anything that requires realm buffs.

I don't think you're going to be saying dummy realms don't matter when somebody convinces some hermit retard in the same region as your main base you guys killed that he suddenly just really likes realms, especially since an entire faction is down to help him fight for it every challenge window. Or when you're surrounded by five realms, and they all simultaneously challenge and even if you win two fights, somehow, you lose three pieces of territory, and can only challenge once in the same time frame.

Honestly, though, that affects such a small portion of the community it doesn't ///really/// matter. In the worldview of the people pushing for very combat focused, very rewarding realms the world only lasts 3 months in their eyes, and it's a given that they will be in a group with a realm. But over 95% of the population has no interest in PVP, but the majority of them will still care about realm buffs. If autisticGrinder69 wants to do X, but he needs the X related realm buff to do it well, he's forced to either not do X well or be involved in realms somehow. Unless he's just lucky, I guess...

For autisticGrinder69 that's kinda game ruining. It's why I turned off all of my buffs last world except the ones that benefit exclusively bots - because fuck autisticGrinder69, that guy's probably somebody I hate. But I think the game shouldn't be trying to fuck him, that's other player's job. That's not to mention, the balance of power tends to shift over the world. In 3-4 months most PVPers will have quit, and it will be a very small number of autistic retards that decide realm boarders. Even if autisticGrinder69 befriends the currently strongest realm, and does everything in his power to help them keep his region - chances are some bored guy with x5 his stats, who's way better at PVP than him, with no realm buffs who's just taking land for fun will claim over him, and nobody from his previous realm will even really care - even if the rewards for it are big, because they're simply not playing.

As well, even if the rewards are big, whichever side thinks they're going to lose is simply not going to show up regardless of the rewards, so it will rarely if ever create a large amount of PVP. If anything, if the rewards are even more significant, it'll probably just be demoralizing for the losing side, in addition to mechanically making them weaker. That just speeds up the whole process of one side not wanting to fight. Not to mention the obvious incentives to join bigger groups - which I would argue is a big part of why the game dies to quickly for PVP. Once one side quits there's nobody new to find to fight, because you're either allied to everybody, or they quit. Usually both. Kinda sucks.

I'm not sure if you guys are just near sighted, or if you literally just don't care what happens to a world after 3 months - I assume a bit of both. Regardless, every iteration of realms including this one has been lose/lose/lose for everybody. The game would be better without realms.
"We specialize in permadeath and forum drama." -man who removed death and deletes every drama thread
http://www.seatribe.se/
User avatar
SnuggleSnail
 
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:04 pm

Re: thingwals vs pvp vs expansions

Postby MightySheep » Wed May 19, 2021 1:57 am

Pvpers quit because there is nothing to do. At some point standing outside your enemy base going "pls come out" gets old and last world fighting 1 meteor a month didnt quite cut it, especially when it stopped being a thing that anyone even needed. This world is going the same path. Thats why realms, if it is properly executed, is necessary. Ofcourse the guy who doesnt even like proper pvp isn't going to want anything that potentially incentivizes and rewards it. Why should that be surprising to anyone.
I don't think you're going to be saying dummy realms don't matter when somebody convinces some hermit retard in the same region as your main base you guys killed that he suddenly just really likes realms, especially since an entire faction is down to help him fight for it every challenge window. Or when you're surrounded by five realms, and they all simultaneously challenge and even if you win two fights, somehow, you lose three pieces of territory, and can only challenge once in the same time frame.

I'm happy to be proven wrong but I actually look forward to a moment when 4 realms attempt this because like I said they cant win the PvP. You have already tried banding balders bra, arcanum, land of fire and whatever realm groups together and still lost the fight. I'm happy for another attempt and when it fails you lose 20 steel every attempt. A war banner has to be successfully defended, theres no getting around that fact. It's also really not that hard, later in the world with more willpower and more thingwalls mapped to teleport to defend territory.
User avatar
MightySheep
 
Posts: 1928
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:18 pm

Re: thingwals vs pvp vs expansions

Postby wolf1000wolf » Wed May 19, 2021 7:53 am

A bit curious about the claim that the pvpers actually do mostly stop playing 3 months into a world. Has this held true for the last few worlds?
wolf1000wolf
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:10 am

Re: thingwals vs pvp vs expansions

Postby MightySheep » Thu May 20, 2021 12:42 am

considering the size of the zerg that is coming to bash our war banners now Im not sure snails own villagers agree with him
User avatar
MightySheep
 
Posts: 1928
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:18 pm

Re: thingwals vs pvp vs expansions

Postby ogey » Thu May 20, 2021 12:52 am

Where are the realms, anyway? I created a new character and found MONKE but that was all, I never found anyone in the south east or south west. Is everyone in the middle continent?
User avatar
ogey
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:39 am

Previous

Return to Critique & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dotbot [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 12 guests