Domestic animal population control

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Domestic animal population control

Postby Tammer » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:37 pm

I suggest that before animals decide to mate, they check the number of animals of the same type nearby. If there are too many of the same type nearby, then they don't mate. Or the probability that they decide to mate is reduced significantly if there are too many nearby.


Rationale: I appreciate that you listened to us and sped up butchering. I really do. However, dealing with domestic animals is still a big chore; you need to memorize and brand them and sort through your list and kill most of them. If you don't keep on top of it, the number of animals can go from a few too many to a ridiculous number in a few days. Then you have a sheep pen that you fear to step foot in, and it takes all day to sort them and cook or store their products. Turning them into soylent green is faster but still takes awhile. Even just killing them and leaving them to rot takes longer than I would like because you can't walk around in a crowded pen; you can't shoo them if you're holding a carcass so you have to hearth out and start over.

I know people will suggest just keeping males and females separate; I do that usually too. But eventually you bring the male back to get another generation, and then if you forget about it for awhile the population explodes. Moving animals between pens can be annoying too.

If you go with this density approach to population control, then people could still have the fast growth we have now if they used larger pens. More casual players could keep smaller pens, have slower quality growth, but have less of an overwhelming chore in keeping animals. Or maybe some other solution would be better, but I would appreciate something to make keeping on top of animal population less onerous. Thanks!
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby vatas » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:50 pm

I support this post.
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:40 am

Having to do a fuckload of math to optimize pen size and intervals for culling/butchering sounds like cancer to me.

I think there are some better solutions to make animal husbandry less tedious, without forcing people to do autistic math if they actually want large quantities of animals EX:

  • tertiary stats (truffle snout, stamina, milk quantity, meat quality%) have a bias towards increasing (+5, or +5/-2, or +3, or +0-5 instead of +5/-5)
  • Breeding quality & its dependencies removed. If you actually do the math to figure out how many animals you need to get consistent good rolles this takes it from a few dozen animals per stat type to several hundred, plus an additional pen of hundreds for specifically BQ
  • Just straight up remove the mother's impact on newborn's stats, or always use the better parent's stats
  • Sexually mature males could kill/prevent lesser males from breeding, meaning the pen doesn't need to be culled on a consistent timer for good quality growth (only if you change tertiary stats to have a positive bias, this would be cancer without that)
  • Branding should be inherited from the father. I know it doesn't make sense from a muh realism perspective, but when you actually care about branding it's fucking awful to brand everything. Herder credo actively made the game less fun for herders. At very least a visual indication for what has already been branded.
  • Allow meats/intestines/entrails to be put in barrels/cisterns, 1 unit of meat == 1KG or similar. Don't allow mixing of meats, it would be annoying to do accidentally and only further complicate the food system
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby Massa » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:10 am

SnuggleSnail wrote:Having to do a fuckload of math to optimize pen size and intervals for culling/butchering sounds like cancer to me.

I think there are some better solutions to make animal husbandry less tedious, without forcing people to do autistic math if they actually want large quantities of animals EX:

  • tertiary stats (truffle snout, stamina, milk quantity, meat quality%) have a bias towards increasing (+5, or +5/-2, or +3, or +0-5 instead of +5/-5)
  • Breeding quality & its dependencies removed. If you actually do the math to figure out how many animals you need to get consistent good rolles this takes it from a few dozen animals per stat type to several hundred, plus an additional pen of hundreds for specifically BQ
  • Just straight up remove the mother's impact on newborn's stats, or always use the better parent's stats
  • Sexually mature males could kill/prevent lesser males from breeding, meaning the pen doesn't need to be culled on a consistent timer for good quality growth (only if you change tertiary stats to have a positive bias, this would be cancer without that)
  • Branding should be inherited from the father. I know it doesn't make sense from a muh realism perspective, but when you actually care about branding it's fucking awful to brand everything. Herder credo actively made the game less fun for herders. At very least a visual indication for what has already been branded.
  • Allow meats/intestines/entrails to be put in barrels/cisterns, 1 unit of meat == 1KG or similar. Don't allow mixing of meats, it would be annoying to do accidentally and only further complicate the food system

pls jorb listen to snuggle especially bc this isn't a pvp idea this shit is dank
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby Archiplex » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:21 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:Having to do a fuckload of math to optimize pen size and intervals for culling/butchering sounds like cancer to me.

I think there are some better solutions to make animal husbandry less tedious, without forcing people to do autistic math if they actually want large quantities of animals EX:

  • tertiary stats (truffle snout, stamina, milk quantity, meat quality%) have a bias towards increasing (+5, or +5/-2, or +3, or +0-5 instead of +5/-5)
  • Breeding quality & its dependencies removed. If you actually do the math to figure out how many animals you need to get consistent good rolles this takes it from a few dozen animals per stat type to several hundred, plus an additional pen of hundreds for specifically BQ
  • Just straight up remove the mother's impact on newborn's stats, or always use the better parent's stats
  • Sexually mature males could kill/prevent lesser males from breeding, meaning the pen doesn't need to be culled on a consistent timer for good quality growth (only if you change tertiary stats to have a positive bias, this would be cancer without that)
  • Branding should be inherited from the father. I know it doesn't make sense from a muh realism perspective, but when you actually care about branding it's fucking awful to brand everything. Herder credo actively made the game less fun for herders. At very least a visual indication for what has already been branded.
  • Allow meats/intestines/entrails to be put in barrels/cisterns, 1 unit of meat == 1KG or similar. Don't allow mixing of meats, it would be annoying to do accidentally and only further complicate the food system


also add a stable/barn building where animals will SIT IN ONE FUCKING PLACE AND NOT MOVE AROUND and can be interacted with from the outside

milking/shearing and butchering is the most painful shit in the universe and having to manually make ugly ass looking fence traps for them with benches is lame
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby WowGain » Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:08 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:snip


love all these, if they were added today animals would be 1/1000th as cancerous to manage on larger (aka relevant) scales
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby DPblH » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:54 am

All this tedium with 1001 params in breeding must be removed. Just make it simple: the more quality your animals - the more stuff they can give. Make it as simple as chicken breeding.

Inb4 next patch: chickens has been reworked, now they have quality, breeding quality, feather count, eggs count, eggs color...
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby Liss12 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:15 am

Archiplex wrote:
SnuggleSnail wrote:Having to do a fuckload of math to optimize pen size and intervals for culling/butchering sounds like cancer to me.

I think there are some better solutions to make animal husbandry less tedious, without forcing people to do autistic math if they actually want large quantities of animals EX:

  • tertiary stats (truffle snout, stamina, milk quantity, meat quality%) have a bias towards increasing (+5, or +5/-2, or +3, or +0-5 instead of +5/-5)
  • Breeding quality & its dependencies removed. If you actually do the math to figure out how many animals you need to get consistent good rolles this takes it from a few dozen animals per stat type to several hundred, plus an additional pen of hundreds for specifically BQ
  • Just straight up remove the mother's impact on newborn's stats, or always use the better parent's stats
  • Sexually mature males could kill/prevent lesser males from breeding, meaning the pen doesn't need to be culled on a consistent timer for good quality growth (only if you change tertiary stats to have a positive bias, this would be cancer without that)
  • Branding should be inherited from the father. I know it doesn't make sense from a muh realism perspective, but when you actually care about branding it's fucking awful to brand everything. Herder credo actively made the game less fun for herders. At very least a visual indication for what has already been branded.
  • Allow meats/intestines/entrails to be put in barrels/cisterns, 1 unit of meat == 1KG or similar. Don't allow mixing of meats, it would be annoying to do accidentally and only further complicate the food system


also add a stable/barn building where animals will SIT IN ONE FUCKING PLACE AND NOT MOVE AROUND and can be interacted with from the outside

milking/shearing and butchering is the most painful shit in the universe and having to manually make ugly ass looking fence traps for them with benches is lame

I second that. And i would like to rant about desing philosophy in haven in general. In every aspect of the game with couple of exeptions any sort of development means increase of tedium, not decrease of it like it is done in every other game of colony builder/happy farm/survival genre. Aside from bot users and literal slavedrivers people have to do more and more chores as they progress and it makes them to burn out quickly. I suspect introducing some automatization and Qol features for high end players would result in much longer world span and more stable payerbase.
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby DDDsDD999 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:26 am

DPblH wrote:All this tedium with 1001 params in breeding must be removed. Just make it simple: the more quality your animals - the more stuff they can give. Make it as simple as chicken breeding.

Inb4 next patch: chickens has been reworked, now they have quality, breeding quality, feather count, eggs count, eggs color...

It's like the triquality system from forever ago, but even lamer because instead of controlling multiple quality nodes, you just make ungodly amounts of animals pens that only bots can maintain.
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Re: Domestic animal population control

Postby Fostik » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:00 pm

Make it so that branding will also require you to perform some kind of care action - clean, shear, shave, feed, brand or anything.
So animal received care eats and breeds normally, while others animals will get sick and will eat less, grow up and breed slower.

This makes old existing branding mechanic to work as well-designed game mechanic, instead of being needless without credo, and also animals will not breed like a rabbits when you don't really give them attention, and therefore not need population boom.
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