PVE World

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

PVE World

Postby Perunn » Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:49 pm

Hey guys,

I know that the idea of a second PvE World has been discussed a lot previously, but let me bring it up on the table once again. I do not consider myself new to the game, although I do not like to use custom clients/bots/several accounts and rarely have the time and nerves to develop like some other players here. Probably like a lot of other players I simply enjoy the beauties that the game has to offer.

A provocation for my post here is this screenshot - apparently some guy decided to destroy my palisade-protected home, draw a swastika and call me nigger.
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Now, I understand jorb's, loftar's and others' thoughts on PvP - that we're meant to enjoy the world how it is, that it is impossible to change human nature, that PvE would be unrealistic, that there would be tons of griefing, etc. I appreciate them and I do like the game the way it is now. I also understand the issues of griefing which PvP "solves" - like claiming lands around somebody else's, blocking someone with 10000 bots, etc., but is really PvP the one and only way to solve these?

Let's consider a world where claimed land is untouchable/impenetrable, yet there are passages that are simply not affected by claims - natural roads(way more and of course unbuildable)/rivers/oceans. Walls would not really be necessary since there is no vandalism/theft/etc. Maybe introduce a hearth magic/ability to teleport to a random space some distance away (without landing on someone's claim) or teleporting to a "natural road". For natural resources - maybe always have an "natural road" leading up to them, e.g. guaranteed access for everyone (I guess those could then still be blocked by 1000 bots, but what about making players pass-through?). For mining - maybe even make ore spawnable on unclaimed empty tiles over time?

I am certain that a lot of players would love and appreciate a casual PvE world and thus stay in the game a lot longer - maybe even go to the PvP world when they feel they want to.


Thank you and I hope you reconsider!
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Re: PVE World

Postby Dawidio123 » Tue Feb 27, 2024 1:16 am

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On a more serious note, yes, PvP is kinda necessary to keep the game as a sandbox without completely butchering the core concepts of the game (okay let's say no pvp, you go to hunt and someone picks up a moose you just hunted, what you do? Even if you solve an issue like this, there are hundred other issues you also need to solve to make it somehow work).
What lots of players would actually want are private servers where they can larp freely with some friends and choose the settings that make the game enjoyable for them, this is the one way non-PvP worlds could work without being a shitshow that just costs the devs money to upkeep for the few players that will play there despite its shortcomings.
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Re: PVE World

Postby mulamishne » Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:49 am

Perunn wrote:Hey guys,

I know that the idea of a second PvE World has been discussed a lot previously,

Then why are you making a new thread about it, bump one of the old one and reread the dev reasons why pvp world bad.
Also a non-pvp world wouldn't prevent someone from calling you a nigger or paving a swastika, it would just prevent you retaliating.
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Re: PVE World

Postby Deckard » Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:28 am

On a more serious note, yes, PvP is kinda necessary to keep the game as a sandbox without completely butchering the core concepts of the game (okay let's say no pvp, you go to hunt and someone picks up a moose you just hunted, what you do? Even if you solve an issue like this, there are hundred other issues you also need to solve to make it somehow work).


I've seen this argument several times, does it really happen to you a lot in game? I've been playing for months now and it's already rare to meet someone so having someone next to you at the exact moment you kill an animal and take it from you seems very improbable, but it could happen that's true, and there is an easy way to fix that, make it so the animal killed can be only interacted with the one who first attacked it, with a countdown of 3 min, after this countdown anyone can interact with the carcass.

Anyway, I believe the ones who want to be assholes will be on the PvP server because that's where they can do the most damage, they'll feel bored quickly on the PvE one, for the other few issues truly unfixable they can use the moderators on this forum as admins who can solve them voluntarily.

Also a PvE server could really make the game more popular and be more profitable to devs, make this PvE server only accessible to paid users (it will reduce the amount of kids who do shit like this), because many players just give up once they had the same experience than OP had, you invest thousand of hours to get something, to advance in game, reduced to nothing in one day because of someone who just wanted to have fun by destroying your stuff, you seek revenge? Lol you know damn well you'll never achieve this and the aggressor knows it even more, that's why he didn't hesitate one second to destroy you, so what do you do? Invest another thousand hours or just find another game? You play something else of course, that's why HnH has only on average 500 players per day. Only the strongest stay or the lucky ones who never experienced this, yet.
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Re: PVE World

Postby TraxayaNoNelubya » Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:47 am

this krogrim... unreal murder and griefer... jorb ban him please he terrorize whole lanweald province and gramcarden too :c
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Re: PVE World

Postby JanJak » Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:48 am

You just need to kill all the pvp villages, and here it is a happy life on a fun farm...
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Re: PVE World

Postby DonVelD » Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:43 am

how about a pvp world
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Re: PVE World

Postby Dawidio123 » Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:14 pm

Deckard wrote:I've seen this argument several times, does it really happen to you a lot in game? I've been playing for months now and it's already rare to meet someone so having someone next to you at the exact moment you kill an animal and take it from you seems very improbable, but it could happen that's true, and there is an easy way to fix that, make it so the animal killed can be only interacted with the one who first attacked it, with a countdown of 3 min, after this countdown anyone can interact with the carcass.

That's just one issue there are many more you could think of, it's more of a food for thought than a real scenario, also in this case what stops people from having alts that keep animals aggro'd so they can get it on hql spot, and oh yeah you can't do anything about those alts (Just aggro the animal through a big cliff they can't reach you).

Deckard wrote:Anyway, I believe the ones who want to be assholes will be on the PvP server because that's where they can do the most damage, they'll feel bored quickly on the PvE one, for the other few issues truly unfixable they can use the moderators on this forum as admins who can solve them voluntarily.

Oh for sure, giving forum moderators (who are also players) real power seems like a great idea, I'm sure none of them will abuse it ¦]

Deckard wrote:Also a PvE server could really make the game more popular and be more profitable to devs, make this PvE server only accessible to paid users (it will reduce the amount of kids who do shit like this), because many players just give up once they had the same experience than OP had, you invest thousand of hours to get something, to advance in game, reduced to nothing in one day because of someone who just wanted to have fun by destroying your stuff, you seek revenge? Lol you know damn well you'll never achieve this and the aggressor knows it even more, that's why he didn't hesitate one second to destroy you, so what do you do? Invest another thousand hours or just find another game? You play something else of course, that's why HnH has only on average 500 players per day. Only the strongest stay or the lucky ones who never experienced this, yet.


There is just so much wrong with this paragraph idk where to start tbh. HnH is an unpopular game because it's a chore simulator when it comes to PvE (that's why people bot, even tho joftar philosophy is that if something's botted then it's a bad mechanic, yet they don't do anything about those mechanics), most people don't want to play something like that, ESPECIALLY for longer than 2-3 months, and even players who only like to PvP find it boring when they get outstated/geared by people who keep on grinding month after month/have to grind themselves, that's why HnH is ALWAYS at 300 players around this point in time. New world is way worse when it comes to griefing and having your shit kicked in, and even then there is 1k+ players, you think they come back each time thinking "oh this time it'll be different" or do you think they just want to play when the world is not dead. Right now the world is as peaceful as it could be, yeah you probably can't retaliate because they grinded for 6 months to get decent stats but at the same time all the BIG groups mostly quit the game except for a few bored players.

You don't lose thousands of hours on progress in a day, OP lost maybe like 2-3 days of work and honestly that's on him (make a cave base, build a pali in a desired spot, and don't move into it until it's dried), OP didn't have a dry pali hence someone came in and bashed it as is their right. Having other people play near is you is suboptimal because they will take resources from YOUR local pools, they will take YOUR animals, and they will go into YOUR mines, and all the space around their base stops new spawns YOU want, tbh at this point they probably do this for fun (who cares about resources in a 6 months old world), but in the first months it's the optimal way to play to destroy everyone around you as they'd do the same to you if they could.
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Re: PVE World

Postby Deckard » Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:04 pm

Dawidio123 wrote:also in this case what stops people from having alts that keep animals aggro'd so they can get it on hql spot, and oh yeah you can't do anything about those alts (Just aggro the animal through a big cliff they can't reach you).


They could just lose aggro after like 10 sec of not being reachable, as it should be. It's already pretty stupid right now that animals don't flee when they can't reach you and they stand there getting shot.

Dawidio123 wrote:Oh for sure, giving forum moderators (who are also players) real power seems like a great idea, I'm sure none of them will abuse it


If they're not trustworthy then they shouldn't be moderators to begin with. I expect people to be mature enough to not abuse those powers but if they get caught then they get permanently banned.
By powers I mean just be able to spectate suspicious players for a certain amount of time, give them warnings and get banned (by devs) if they do it again. In some games, Project Zomboid for example, some players are also admins and I've never seen or heard of someone abusing it and they have way more powers.
How to catch those admins abusing their powers? Each time they turn on spectate mode it tracks which player they spectate, if the player spectated is not on the suspects list it notifies devs and they can ban them for abusing this power.
For a player to be on this list they have to be reported by another player with footage of their forbidden actions, admins put them on the suspects list if the accusation seems legit.
I don't know, maybe it's a stupid idea and could never work, but I'm sure there are solutions to make it work and I believe not many players would cause problems, maybe I'm too optimistic.

Yeah I've exaggerated on the number of hours, when I thought about it I wanted to edit my comment but now it's too late, anyway I stand correct on this idea, if somebody wants to destroy everything you've achieved since day one, they can and you won't be able to do anything if you're not strong enough, that's what a PvP game is about after all so it's normal, but when you can only play like 1h a day you would like to be able to enjoy the game without losing everything, "then play another game, it's not for you" well that's what many of us do...
You may be right, it's maybe not the main reason for its unpopularity but I believe it's still a big factor and they could really benefit from a PvE server subs only, but I'm still a new player, I may not see all the implications there is to it so I'm not gonna talk more about a subject I don't master enough.
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Re: PVE World

Postby jock » Tue Feb 27, 2024 8:28 pm

We don't need a pve world, we need a morality system that adds weight to attacking people outside of enemy kingdoms.

be a dick get less lp/exp/feps + lose more on death till it wears off based on the crime(long time, forever in death case even). Ofc this needs a war system and perms for attacking in your own realms lands to counter this.

right now there is little weight in deciding if you should murder someone weaker than you, often it's just free loot.
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