Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby Pickard » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:19 pm

Here are the suggestions regarding the in-game balance for the future world:

1.Only the basic attributes/skills should be capped. Therefore, players, who have reached the cap, should be able to have green stat bonuses by wearing jewels or clothing. For instance, if you have reached 200 stat/skill cap, wearing thanes rings could give you additional 60 str.
Advantages:
- Every quality gain for an item is priceless. Therefore, crafting high-q items stimulates the in-game market and becomes more strategically important.
Disadvantages:
- Cannot see any.

2. Replace the caps with 90-160-250 instead of originally suggested 50-125-200
Advantages:
- First of all, it sounds pretty good to have x3, x4, x5 multipliers
- 50 basic survival + 16 survival from nettle clothing is not enough for the free account. Water, soil, clay is going to be capped, which will produce additional hatred of peasants.
- 90 str + 60 str would allow digging at level 3. Therefore, people could obtain gold with a lot of effort (moreover, the golden nodes are expected to be more rare in the next world)
- There is smaller difference between levels (1.33 and 1.25 in comparison with 1.58 and 1.26)
- The stat level difference is big enough to keep paying the money

For the 90 level cap (stats+skills cap will be refered as levels from now on) and q 40 equipment, the item boosted green stats would be:
- farming = 105
- foraging = 106
- str = 156
- perc = 160
- exp = 100
- mining power = 111
- perc*exp = 16000

For the 160 level cap and q 63 equipment, the item boosted green stats would be:
- str = 242
- perc = 247
- exp = 172
- int = 237
- stealth = 210
- mining power = 174
- perc*exp = 42484
- int*stealth = 49770

For the 250 level cap and q 63 equipment, the item boosted green stats would be:
- str = 332
- perc = 337
- exp = 262
- int = 327
- stealth = 300
- mining power = 204
- perc*exp = 88294
- int*stealth = 98100

From the numbers provided above, it is clear that there is a problem with stealth:
perc*exp 49770/16000 = 3.11 verified/free
perc*exp 98100/42484 = 2.31 subscribed/verified
The difference between the levels is more than x2.
I think, it would be appropriate if the free players could somehow see verified, and verified people could see subscribed folk.

This will stimulate the social interaction, since “free” villages would need either ranger mercenaries or allies, or at least one verified account in their village.

3. Change the hardness of the minerals to:
Code: Select all
Level  Hardness min-max  Power  Example build
  1           0 - 50      20    10 axe 40 str
  2          30 - 100     40    10 pickaxe 80 str
  3          60 - 150     100   40 pickaxe 125 str
  4          90 - 200     160   60 pickaxe 220 str
  5         120 - 250     190   60 pickaxe 300 str

Max. hardness with taking the hard minerals into the account.
Let the mining in the lower levels to be quite hard. It is fine if some spots underground would be too hard even for a subscribed player in the top-gear. Otherwise there is no challenge and the mining becomes some routine. Additionally, that could degrade the mine-botting levels.

4. Increase the mine support range to 11 and 15 tiles.
In the Legacy we would get 11 tiles radius for 2 nuggets of any metal. Moreover, the metal we had in Legacy was easier to obtain.

5. Re-locate the minehole exit, so that it would be on the opposite side from the entrance.

6. Remove 3 different types of quality and leave only one quality, as in Legacy.
3 different qualities do not really work, since we need only 2 types of industry - essence+subtance for armor and weaponry & substance+vitality for food.
Jewelry, pickaxes need only the best average quality.
In W8 we have made only 1 top-tier q190-160-150 anvil for everything, perfect for crafting armory and weapons & good enough for symbel items.
There is no sense in making the second top-tier anvil with other stat combinations (like essence+vitality)
There is only 1 reasonable scenario for anvil quality improvement: essence+substance. So we have q190-160-150 anvil. There is a point in making q210-190-170, but none for q150-160-190 anvil.

3 different qualities make the resourсe node search harder: good quality nodes are extremely rare nowadays
3 different qualities reduce the average quality of the nodes. The highest node the world has ever seen is 60. Most players have not ever seen anything above average quality 50.
Nodes such as 80 10 10 are not needed by anyone. .

Or make 3 quality system reasonable.

7. Return the white clay.
Troll kiln was a good challenge and end-game goal with massive strategical meaning.
Same with numen metals, but it was too abusive.

8. The tree and cow quality growth speed is too slow
In Legacy the cows would grow for 30-40 quality per month, this world it is twice slower.
The trees quality barely grow, restricted by the quality of the pots, soil, water and herbalist tables. Trees have grown only to q 70 in 5 months time. Therefore, there was no reward in further tree selection + everyone pretty much had the same quality trees as the top factions. Therefore, the trade was quite stale.

9. The taar kiln soft caps the tree nowadays.
If we will take into account the tree growth rate, the quality of the coal will reach q80 (feasible black coal quality) only after 8-10 months of the new world start. Which makes taar kilns pointless.
We could use boards as a fuel, but with the 200-250 level cap, the saw quality would be 140-170. Therefore, the board qualities will be quite low as well.

To compare, q260-280 trollsaws were obtained in the first months of the game in Legacy. A year later it would be q300+.

10. Map generation: big central continent with rivers and lakes, surrounded with ocean, with big islands in sea
The maximum world size should be 7*7 supergrids, if generated without sea;
In case there will be continent, big islands and sea, the size of the map should be 9*9-11*11 supergrids, with continent size 7*7 supergrids.

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11. People should spawn all around the map.
Do not make a central SG with noobs. It will lead to top-villages surrounding the central noob grids and wastelands outside of the faction villages. This scheme is far from ideal, as we can see.
We have world-wide party arrows and charter spawn, so travelling should not be a big problem.

12. Client perfomance - add mipmaps on all textures, OGL can autogenerate it on load. Or use .dds textures with mipmaps. Textures without catastrophically reduces FPS on videocards with low memory bandwidth.

13. Nightbanes have a lot of flaws:
You cannot stand afk somewhere, since the ghosts might appear at any minute. See the video below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opxCzv3AmF8
It is hard to kill alts, blocking your gates outside
Many noobs/hermits will die from leaving theft scents
After committing crimes, you have to log in twice a day. Pray to your Gods, if your client will crash while loading.

Leaving theft scents is annoying as making steel. Vandalism is x2, murder is 3 times more annoying.

I would prefer to pay for the crime before or during committing the crime, not afterwards.
Any other mechanics could be better, such as expensive “kill right” item, or long-healing wounds or stat/skill debuff.
Maybe you could also remove the nidbanes for theft? And make them wait if the player is not moving in-game, being afk?

14. There should be an opportunity to destroy/force to leave small (palisade) villages even with a high cost.
Just don’t make it absurd as camping the ram for 24 hours.

15. Recently, I have noticed the increasing number of farmers and noobs posting their suggestions. They are like feminists: they ask for equity, but in reality they ask beyond that, they ask for TOO MUCH.
Hermits are useless - they do not join villages, participate politics, do not create events, rarely trade (mostly buy good items for berries or real-life money).
w16 nope! w15 Trust me bro(Arcanum) w14 Arcanum w13 Arcanum w12 Action w11 Willowroot w10 Dis w9 Hive w8 Core w7 H.A.W.X/Progress w6 Dis/Disneyland w5 Peace/Late Project w4 Hermit
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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby DDDsDD999 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:28 pm

These all sound good.

Signed.
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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby abt79 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:33 pm

I agree with everything, especially the thoughts on tri quality

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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby Baldarich » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:50 pm

holy shit
best post 2016

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Teleskop wrote:if the chance to win a lottery is 1 to 1 000 000 it doesnt mean im any closer to winning after buying 1 000 000 tickets
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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby LadyV » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:58 pm

I agree with number 7 and 11. As for number 15... people are people. They play differently and their opinion matters just as much as yours.
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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby Pickard » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:07 pm

LadyV wrote:I agree with number 7 and 11. As for number 15... people are people. They play differently and their opinion matters just as much as yours.

Only several people cries in every topic with suggestions which leading to game effectively without crimes and pvp. Same people in every topic. 15th about them.
w16 nope! w15 Trust me bro(Arcanum) w14 Arcanum w13 Arcanum w12 Action w11 Willowroot w10 Dis w9 Hive w8 Core w7 H.A.W.X/Progress w6 Dis/Disneyland w5 Peace/Late Project w4 Hermit
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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby Malkiah » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:12 pm

I approve of this.

+1
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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby Turtlesir » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:30 pm

it's good. the skill caps seems a lot better and well thought out than the seemingly arbitrary numbers jorbtar stuck on it.

i do not agree with 15. hermits make up a large portion of the game's inhabitants so they are not useless. at the least they create an opportunity to be raided, that's an event too. also, you're assuming the devs actually listen and develop the game towards what we're asking, i think it's been proven plenty of times they don't do anything if they don't like it. in fact they themselves seem to be leaning towards these changes, which in turn has to do with their ideas about sieges.
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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby evilboy666 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:32 pm

Mostly +1, you mention that with everyone having the same q items the trade became stale. Well if you are in a well developed village that has all the industries covered you don't actually need to buy anything from outside. And that goes for other villages too. The problem is that you got all your industries covered. For example in Turkey we don't have natural gas in our lands and we have to buy it from other countries. In hnh if a group will form a village they travel outwards or away from people find best quality resources they can find and pali/later bw them and reach it with roads, charterstones etc and you got everything. That goes the same for pretty much every village in hnh. The thing is there is too much resource but much less players. Imagine if there would be 1k-2k active players in the world, damn that would be fun:)).

And you mentioned abusing the ancestor thing the nugget spell and probably made a reference to xcom. Though they set it up and had the bot running for at least a month from what i heard, making those q0 materials, producing all the items etc. Although it is on thin rope because of the bot thing. but if i did it all by hand, i would be damn pissed if i wouldn't get my q9000 nugget that day.
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Re: Some suggestions regarding the in-game balance

Postby abt79 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:38 pm

evilboy666 wrote:Mostly +1, you mention that with everyone having the same q items the trade became stale. Well if you are in a well developed village that has all the industries covered you don't actually need to buy anything from outside. And that goes for other villages too. The problem is that you got all your industries covered. For example in Turkey we don't have natural gas in our lands and we have to buy it from other countries. In hnh if a group will form a village they travel outwards or away from people find best quality resources they can find and pali/later bw them and reach it with roads, charterstones etc and you got everything. That goes the same for pretty much every village in hnh. The thing is there is too much resource but much less players. Imagine if there would be 1k-2k active players in the world, damn that would be fun:)).

And you mentioned abusing the ancestor thing the nugget spell and probably made a reference to xcom. Though they set it up and had the bot running for at least a month from what i heard, making those q0 materials, producing all the items etc. Although it is on thin rope because of the bot thing. but if i did it all by hand, i would be damn pissed if i wouldn't get my q9000 nugget that day.



1-2 thousand people aren't going to play with this pay model and lack of endgame content
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