Mining Tool Softcaps Are Bad

[Southpaw]

It's a really counter-intuitive newbie trap that you're almost always going to be able to make a better QL stone axe than a pickaxe, and that it is generally a better idea to mine your good ore with a stone axe while you're supposed to tunnel with a pickaxe. Someone proposed that pickaxe quality should be counted as double for mining rock softcap, and I agree that this would be the best implementation.

[shubla]

Not sure what you mean by noob trap, its not like #1 priority of noobs would be to rise qualities, but to purely enjoy the game in general. If they later want to focus on their number addiction they will surely find out these things by then.

[Southpaw]

The very most counter-intuitive thing I've ever had to explain to new people re: mining system is the pickaxe vs stone axe importance. It's not a "number addiction" due to the way the mining system works-- you flat out need to pay attention to your qualities or you are going to hit progression walls much easier, which generally leads to would-be miners getting frustrated and confused why they're just so darn weak with their q11 pickaxe.

But I digress, because mining strength is a dumb enough formula I can whine about it for ages. The real problem is that I don't think hitting, for example, a wall of feldspar with my stone axe, which is currently 70q higher than my pick, should be my only avenue if I want to extract good rocks from this node, when I've got a perfectly good pickaxe in my belt.

[VDZ]

I disagree regarding mining softcaps being bad in general: they provide a clear goal to work towards, implicitly telling you that you can achieve better results by upgrading your tool, incentivizing progression and making it feel more worthwhile.

I do agree, however, that it's dumb that a stone on a branch provides better results than a dedicated mining tool that takes some effort to acquire. Ideally Stone Axe would just be nerfed for mining (like always softcapping as if it were q10), but doing so during the world would be very unfair to those who haven't been able to abuse the current Stone Axe mining as much as more advanced players.

[Southpaw]

I disagree regarding mining softcaps being bad in general: they provide a clear goal to work towards, implicitly telling you that you can achieve better results by upgrading your tool, incentivizing progression and making it feel more worthwhile.

I think I can agree with the sentiment here, but I disagree with how it applies in reality. In reality, it means that I've got some nodes I'm flat out not mining until my tool Q doesn't absolutely sodomize them. I would much rather the clear goal be "I can totally find better bloodstone than this" &c&c. The middle ground here may be a revamp of mining tools in general, but I see that as a less likely option.

[vatas]

I think "Mining Power" and "Effective Quality for Softcap Purposes" should be values derived from the actual quality.

Devs have already tip-toed into this, Pickaxes "Mining Power" is currently simply Quality*2.

[VDZ]

I think I can agree with the sentiment here, but I disagree with how it applies in reality. In reality, it means that I've got some nodes I'm flat out not mining until my tool Q doesn't absolutely sodomize them.

I think this is a positive, as it adds a meaningful choice: do I go for immediately mining this node losing out on future higher quality ore, or do I stick to my inferior nodes while looking for a better one that I wouldn't ruin with my current tool? Or perhaps I should just mine half of it and leave the rest for later? If you choose to leave it, that makes the upgrade all the sweeter: now I can finally mine that node I've been wanting to mine for a while without ruining the ore!

[Archiplex]

in retrospect, when i suggested doubling the pickaxe effective softcap i didn't really consider the impacts much- mostly just suggesting it should be better than rock axe

imo, rock axe should just have half of its quality considered when determining softcapping

[Sevenless]

I think the solution would be "all tools other than pickaxe that can mine are functionall 1/2 quality for softcap".

After the initial shock of "oh that reduces my current best ore available", quality pushing would revolve around the pickaxe again and there'd be no real incentive to mine incredibly slowly for quality.

[Liss12]

Or perhaps it is logical to remove mining capability from the stone axe completely and add something like "stone pick" as earlygame pickaxe substitute, made of bough, leather glue and stone. Leather and bough would drag Q down hard enough for a propper pickaxe to reign supreme.