Removing tradeable sub tokens and hats

by **spiritualatom** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 3:44 am

Hey don't usually post here, but felt like i had to chime in on the payment model of h&n right now.

Came back to this game last year and have been playing in a small group since, was unbelievably happy it was still running. I originally played in 2009/10 and fell in love with the hardcore sandbox mmo that haven at that point was. Like an online Unreal world where you could only rely on your own and your groups effort, in an otherwise unforgiving world.

I don't feel like the game is set up like this currently with this payment model, and the game design is seemingly bending backwards for it. An example: Localized ore spawns that incentivize big groups that everyone buys off is fine in theory right. In the case where you meet those groups organically and trade etc. while engaging with and discovering the world alongside this process. That would've been perfect and in line with the really cool sandbox/survival roots of legacy haven.

However; buying a subscription token as a new player. Then TPing to a market to buy 200q+ tools and bypassing content... Is that the kind of play we're looking to encourage with localizing resources and encouraging "trade"?
I mean don't get me wrong. I love the backbone of this game and let people support the devs, let people sub, buy cosmetics and all these things. But buying what's more or less a straight up "WOW-token"? Are we ok with that?

by **Regulus2424** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 8:38 am

Are you unironically asking devs to make significantly less money? Kinda based. Are you asking people that buy tokens so that they can trade them for tools and feel an illusion of competitiveness to stop? Also kinda based tbh. Neither of these things will ever happen, I'm afraid. Also, thanks for the Unreal World mention, its not often that we talk about realistic and immersive videogames about survival in a vast open world here.

by **FaithfulToadd** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 8:51 am

au revoir

by **Regulus2424** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 9:24 am

FaithfulToadd wrote:I don't begrudge hats though -- I'd like to keep those tradeable. It's nice to get a new (old) hat every now and then, since they're only cosmetic and don't affect your character development.

Yeah, the hats have famously never been traded for tools or other valuable items, after all. Character development = unaffected.

by **azrid** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 9:56 am

the amount of time you need to play to get a sub is crazy short even as a solo player
compare this to other games where you can earn sub by playing and you see how good we have it in haven

by **spiritualatom** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 1:31 pm

Regulus2424 wrote: Are you unironically asking devs to make significantly less money? Kinda based. Are you asking people that buy tokens so that they can trade them for tools and feel an illusion of competitiveness to stop? Also kinda based tbh. Neither of these things will ever happen, I'm afraid. Also, thanks for the Unreal World mention, its not often that we talk about realistic and immersive videogames about survival in a vast open world here.

Yeah but let's instead talk about the whimsical punishing survival MMO that once was haven.

FaithfulToadd wrote: Shame on you.

Fair play.

azrid wrote: the amount of time you need to play to get a sub is crazy short even as a solo player
compare this to other games where you can earn sub by playing and you see how good we have it in haven

Nothing bad about trading. If those items obtainable by a solo player has an intrinsic value in the markets and a player can pull himself up by the bootstraps; that's awesome.
If a new player can farm squirrel skins until their hands bleed and someone unironically wants to trade them HQ metal for it; great. But then why have the WOW-token there you know?

To me it seems so fundamentally strange. They're on the one hand localizing certain resources to build on world feel and encourage socialization.
On the other hand you have a globally spawnable object that just buys you a lot of stuff instantly with real money.

Like right now I can as a new player buy a token, exchange into emerald and get myself a chiming bluebell, fully stacked tool set in the 200q-300q range, mammoth headpiece.
And you can make the practical argument that yeah the real hardcore factions gatekeep quality so you're missing out on the top tiers of quality numbers. That's fine but straight up buying the above still bypass an extreme ammount of content.
And theoretically even having the option to do so is immersion breaking and goes against the fundamentals Haven was launched on imo.

by **Audiosmurf** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 1:35 pm

Yeah, tokens and hats basically ruined trading permanently. People jump through hoops with markets to try and make this not true, but it's still true.

by **Regulus2424** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 5:02 pm

spiritualatom wrote:And theoretically even having the option to do so is immersion breaking and goes against the fundamentals Haven was launched on imo.

Actually, the fundamentals that the current version of the game was launched on were "Pay real money for play time", so one could argue that what we have right now is not so bad. Such an argument is of course idiotic.
Anyways, current "fundamentals" are something like this: "Sell gold subs, hats and tokens = profit :twisted:

". I very much doubt that there exists a solution that would overcome the developers greed and change things for the better. But thanks for the reminder of the good old days, I guess.

by **FaithfulToadd** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 5:38 pm

au revoir

by **azrid** » Fri Mar 13, 2026 8:41 pm

spiritualatom wrote:Like right now I can as a new player buy a token, exchange into emerald and get myself a chiming bluebell, fully stacked tool set in the 200q-300q range, mammoth headpiece.
And you can make the practical argument that yeah the real hardcore factions gatekeep quality so you're missing out on the top tiers of quality numbers.

They provided a free game with no way to give them money for the longest time.
Do them a favor and let them make their money now.
You aren't really offering an attractive solution here as an alternative.

spiritualatom wrote:straight up buying the above still bypass an extreme ammount of content.
And theoretically even having the option to do so is immersion breaking and goes against the fundamentals Haven was launched on imo.

Its a choice to skip content.
No one is holding you at gun point to skip tool making and quality grind.
I still know many people who refuse to use markets and are playing solo self found.
Why cant you?