A question for the developers about social interaction

[Over10n]

Hello, while exploring the mechanics and vastness of your amazing game, I encountered the following issue and would like to provide you with feedback on my gaming experience.

One day, I decided to explore the vast world in search of interesting things. As I passed by a teleportation tree, I noticed a building and a bot standing behind a gate. I was not interested in these things, so I continued my exploration. Suddenly, I saw someone teleporting and chasing after me. As soon as they saw me, they used Rawhide and knocked my character out with a single hit. They then stripped me and hung leeches on me.

I want to ask the game developers how this is even possible? Why is the character locked on the horse if magic is used on it? Why didn't you give worthy players the opportunity to escape from such situations? If I don't want to use Rawhide on all other players, for example, when I see a white dot in my vision? If I want to say hello to a person, get to know them, maybe they're a friendly person who just happened to be passing by or using a tree for teleportation, maybe I can help them in some way or they can help me, maybe we could meet in real life and become friends? Why did you create rules in the game where people have to be afraid of each other, why didn't you leave room in the game for good-natured relationships between people, and why are players like this (attacking for no reason) the norm in this world? I've encountered numerous instances where my character has been the victim of such behavior, where people immediately rush at you to kill you and steal your already scarce equipment, but for what purpose? Why should I avoid contact with other people while on a boat and only swim in shallow waters to avoid drowning if another player decides to attack me and break my boat while I'm in K.O.?

Why is the player being punished by the developer for being human and not wanting to be an extension of their instinctual aggression?

[Halbertz]

Why

Swedes

attacking for no reason

What do you mean? Your story clearly shows it was a robbery. The part about leeches simply indicates that the person who robbed you was an asshole, but being one isn't illegal.

Raw hide, boat breaking

Poor game mechanics. The first was added to plug a hole in the PvP system that was created by adding horses to the game. Second is deliberate mockery on the part of the developers. If, after playing this for several years, you feel like this isn't an MMO, but a social experiment, you're not imagining things.

[gravesmerch]

bad stuff usually is there to please the pvp crowd:

coracle was once usable, sled was fast, horses didn't freeze in place, bunny shoes was drama free, player view range was bigger, travel back was fast... also tokens didn't exist, and wasn't always compatible with Barter Stand

[serVar161]

Even in the modern world, trying to meet someone somewhere in a deserted forest or on the road can end in the same way.
Just like sailing on ships in the deep sea can end in a pirate attack.
Let alone those days.

Your situation is like, "I saw a suspicious man in a dark, deserted alley and approached him, but he robbed me. It's unfair."

The developers created the conditions, but the players decide how to play.

There are several options:
"Man is a wolf to man." Play safely. Avoid any dangerous situations as much as possible. And any stranger is a potentially dangerous situation. Deep water is lava.
"Goodness must have fists." Be strong enough to fight back and be able to do whatever you want, including meeting and communicating with strangers.
"Fearless and possibly dead." Play without fear of death. Do whatever you want, and death is just part of the game.

Yes, there's a problem with the balance of "good" and "evil," with peaceful players preferring to play alone or in small groups, while aggressive players gather in larger groups or, using PvP experience that most players lack, terrorize others. But again, this is largely a player-driven choice—many will scold "insane" players, but still won't seek out others to team up with.
Although the existing game mechanics are also partly to blame for this.

[Kinglazy]

I love the game and came to accept everything infuriating that comes with playing it like centering game design and mechanics around pvp nonsense or bumping in to assholes that get hard by causing grief, It's part of the appeal.

The exception is the undefendable stand of the devs to allow bots. People here will argue until they are blue in the face that using spy bots (bots in general) is fair since any one can use them and it isn't banned. When anyone with half a brain should know using bots in a pvp mmo is straight up just cheating and makes the game worse for everyone else by just existing. It circumvents normal human game progression and the one respite you should have from the unemployed, them being logged off.

I am pretty sure the devs endorsed and encouraged using bots because, and I paraphrase, "it points to a short coming on design from their part and don't want to punish bot users for being forced to use them". Which is frankly an excuse worse than the crime imo. Especially since no in game automation of any kind (besides mills and fishing) was introduced which contradicts the intention of their stand on botting.

[gravesmerch]

tbh I agree with devs on bots, its a time consuming lost fight, plus they'd kill the modding community which is one of the unique qualities in haven

client modding created unintended educational game, create your own client is the best end game

heck I couldn't run most of my bases without modded client simplifying things

[serVar161]

I agree about bots. They're evil. And not just in the hands of the "bad guys." The "good guys" abuse them too:
- Instead of playing and interacting with other players, they often prefer to use bots. It's understandable why—a bot is always online when you're online, it has no "wants," and it's more convenient than a real person.
- They may not use them to attack others, but they do use them to gain an unfair advantage and ruin the economy.

Along with this is the uncontrolled ability to launch the game from third-party clients with various scripts. The attitude toward bots and third-party programs is rather strange for an MMO. This topic has been discussed many times in the context of game improvement proposals, but so far, to no avail.

A possible reason is that after bots are banned, players will start demanding action against them. "Since it's banned, do something about them and those who use them! Why is that player using a bot and nothing happens?"
So it seems like there's a problem, but it's not that big of a deal, and there will be more problems if we try to solve it. We smile and wave.

[Audiosmurf]

Scout bots like that are, above all else, the most laughably degenerate shit in this game, like enough to make me embarrassed to ever recommend Haven to anyone

[Kinglazy]

tbh I agree with devs on bots, its a time consuming lost fight, plus they'd kill the modding community which is one of the unique qualities in haven

It's only modding in a solo or pve game. Modding in a pvp game is cheating. Cheating that I am forced to engage with just enough to not be a victim of the malicious cheaters. Multiplayer games inherently entails a balanced playfield for all players, which goes double in a pvp game and triple for a survival game with perma death.

Out sourcing QoL features that should be in the game to 3rd party clients is not "supporting the modding community", it's just lazy. If you like the feature and everyone likes the feature, just make it part of the default client.

client modding created unintended educational game, create your own client is the best end game

I don't think admitting that the game devolved in to a coders bot testing grounds is the positive note you thought it was

[gravesmerch]

without modding some players couldn't run the game properly, at least that used to be the case, still is for me anyways