Bots, lets talk about them.

[Carebear]

Add way to farm without it taking so much time/clicking to replant/plant.

I'm not really disagreeing, but might we not kind of just as well let people conjure crop produce out of thin air, in that case, though? That's the extreme case of that idea.

Current farming mechanic is not bad, being able to harvest or plant a big field is great. My 2 cents, all that is missing is an auto-drink when harvesting (if you have a water source in inventory).

Bit much to talk about auto-piles or auto-replanting after harvesting - drinking is all that is missing IMHO.

[Turtlesir]

i agree with the general sentiment, the best way to combat bots is to control them yourself (@jorb&loftar). i like the multirow harvest idea.

another option would be to add Slaves that can be given menial tasks.:p
a) a goblin race that can be bred like cattle, though underground in mudpits, their quality would be speed/accuracy of sticking to assigned labour.
b) ability to capture Hearthlings. the capturee gets a death screen, the capturer gets a slave which he can control.
c) hirelings that can be "crafted" relatively expensively.
optionally: occasionally slaves try to rise up/escape if you have too many or treat them terribly.

[dvsmasta]

Another main reason bots are so nice is they get around the time problems. For a person to manually try to keep up with quality you would have to be on every time a crop cycle is finished and be ready to go. The bot will always be ready, sorted and finished on time.

That being said, i dont really have any good ideas for fixing this problem without a complete change to the system.

One idea may be to change farming from per tile to a plot based system that is expandable. You would work the plot a set amount of time based on its size and the quality of the plot would be constant change rather than per tile or per plant time (i know you changed the method awhile back so its less granular than last world)

If this route is taken, a method of queuing work into the plot (albeit not very realistic) could be put in place so you dont have to be on right when the timers finish. It moves a bit more towards a farmville approach, but eliminates a large reason why people use bots in the first place. Also implementing an auto-drink function into the game for longer tasks would be super cool. When chopping a tree, it would be nice if it would chop/drink and finish chopping it down

TL&DR
Remove the tile based crop system and replace with plot based system with a work queue system to limit the advantage bots have over humans due to time gates etc.

[Redlaw]

TL&DR
Remove the tile based crop system and replace with plot based system with a work queue system to limit the advantage bots have over humans due to time gates etc.

That would make this game a lot more like, Farmvill though. It does that. Hell you have X number of workers in some games and you haft to pay to get more (or bug your friends).

[dvsmasta]

TL&DR
Remove the tile based crop system and replace with plot based system with a work queue system to limit the advantage bots have over humans due to time gates etc.

That would make this game a lot more like, Farmvill though. It does that. Hell you have X number of workers in some games and you haft to pay to get more (or bug your friends).

You will never get around the problem that a bot can work 24/7. The best fix to bot problems is generally eliminate that advantage. Timed systems that require you to be on at odd hours ensure a bot will win the fight every time.

You will never eliminate bots that are used for bulk production. If you want 100 cattle you will still want a botted fodder system. This would only work towards eliminating the quality gap that arises due to bots ability to work 24/7

[mamba]

With the diminishing return on quality I doubt that harvesting as soon as its ready or tomorow give a game breaking avantage.

[LadyV]

Alright if we are seriously going to try this topic again then so be it.


Bots are not acceptable. Now before the pro bot side comes storming in to tell me I'm wrong I have heard your side many many times and I have played with people who bot. You have only reinforced my views.

First of all bots are not people playing. You by default are cheating the game.

Yes things in the game may be tiring and tedious. They however are not excessive. There is no excuse! If you can not put the time in to play the game then don't play. If you can not live with doing whats within your time then don't play. If you can not keep up without a bot then maybe you should seek out others to help you keep up. Using bots to gain an advantage is also wrong. You don't win by doing so you only cheat another.

I have listened to these arguments for to many years and not just in Haven. Quite simply it's not acceptable. It's ok to not have enough time to keep up with others. It's ok to just enjoy what you can do with what time you have. It's ok not no be the best at everything. It is ok to lose. Be Human and play with Humans, not machines. (And yes before the snide comment of we are playing on computers pops up I know, that is not the point.)

Personally I am tired of all these excuses of why people need to subvert a system just to keep up. You know what I have never botted. I may not be the best but I enjoy my game. I am proud of every goal that I set for myself and achieve. I am happy when I meet other nice people int he game and we have fun. Sharing the Human experience is one fo the greatest things we can do in life. It has become to easy and acceptable to lies, cheat, steal, and manipulate online.

Respect the game, respect others, and respect yourself. Play honestly and fairly.

Now for those who like bots. Take your passion for programming, scripting... and apply it. Not to a game that is meant to be Human vs. Human but to the world. Imagine all that creativity applied to making your life or others better. That would be a sight to see.

Like my words or not they are true. I won't rescend them and i won't back down on them. If you honestly have an issue with the game that is to much to endure or enjoy then press your case in this area. If enough agree with you Jorb and Loftar will act. They have returned. Do not take matters into your own hands. It is not yours and most certainly it is not your right to cheat or take from others who may be playing fairly.

To all the bot users and makers I have known in Haven; you have been wonderful people I have enjoyed getting to know. I have played with you and listened to your enthusiasm for it. But I can not agree with it. I believe in allowing others to play how they will but it bothers me when you use things other than yourself to get ahead. Please use your head and mind and embrace the game.

[stya]

Now for those who like bots. Take your passion for programming, scripting... and apply it. Not to a game that is meant to be Human vs. Human but to the world. Imagine all that creativity applied to making your life or others better. That would be a sight to see.

This is probably what most bot-makers already do for a living for your information (at least the good/pro ones).

[Ethan]

I think the biggest reason people bot is that there is just too many unfun chores. Bots allow you to skip the tedious stuff. It is a game, and the main purpose of a game is to derive enjoyment. I don't think there is much hope in eliminating bots, but when it takes a couple hours unfun investment everyday to just feed and sort cattle, they are hard to avoid.

In regards to the don't bite off more than you can chew aspect, when all there is to the end game is raising Q, not seeing any real Q rise for months, is even less enjoyable than the mindless chores.

a few suggestions to lighten the chore load would be:

Heavily reduce(eliminate?) the stamina required to harvest crops.
Increase the crop stock piles to 250. (whats the reasoning behind having such small stockpiles anyway?)

In respect to cows, while the random up/down stats is kinda fun, it means you constantly want as large of pool of animals as you can possibly manage. If there was a flat increase of Q, then you wouldn't need as many cows. More ways to manage cows would be nice as well, I have seen some good suggestions already.

Ovens should work like fires, you light the oven and then you can use it to "craft all" cooked baked goods.

sillk is another very tedious area, maybe we can get special silk worm nests, that act kinda like a chicken coop, where we can just dump a shit load of leaves and worms into them.

Also what was the reasoning behind reducing the tree leaves to 250?


I think the easiest way to reduce bots is to make the Q grind part of the game rather than the core of the game. There needs to be something more to the game than grinding Q.

[ddrboy54]

I think the game should be fully playable while afk so I have 4 bots that pretty much do all the playing for me. I only actually log in to palibash noobs.

I'm currently working on one that spams the forums with complaints about how there's nothing to do in game, and then my Dis simulator should be complete.