Rework Outlaw

[shubla]

Hmm. You make some good points, at least. Will consider. What I didn't like about summoning as it existed in Legacy is all the shit it allowed for in terms of teleporting around characters by summoning them.

When you summon a character, it dies, and all of its inventory contents and equipment will be destroyed, and there will be no problems with using them for teleportation.

[MrBunzy]

Hmm. You make some good points, at least. Will consider. What I didn't like about summoning as it existed in Legacy is all the shit it allowed for in terms of teleporting around characters by summoning them.

I do recall teleportation via summoning being a common abuse at some point in legacy. I also recall it being patched pretty well by having characters instantly die if summoned with no hearth fire. That system seems fine to me, but a more intuitive (albeit harsh) one might be to skip summoning all together and have characters instantly die if their hearth fire were ever broken while outlawed.

yeah uhh sure but siege does not exist and most likely will not be here for a long time considering all that client rewriting they got planned for the coming years so as a result this change would never be noticed by anyone.

I think your problem is not that siege 'does not exist' but rather that it requires more effort than you are willing to put in to be successful. Rather than "fixing" siege by, presumably, making it easier, I think another approach could be to make it more meaningful, for example by causing siege to guarantee kills against the outlaws you siege. If siege felt more rewarding, perhaps people would be more willing to put in the monumental amount of effort it requires.

i dont think brick bashing should be brought back in to the game honestly. who wouldnt brick bash everything they come across knowing nobody is stronger than them? if skill mattered and a single guy could beat a group of people sure but that doesnt exist in the haven we have atm.

I did not say I wanted brick bashing back, it's pretty clear to see that that would be a disaster. I only mentioned the mechanic because I found it interesting how large of an impact it had on player behavior, despite almost never actually occurring. Perhaps even if siege was difficult enough to only happen a couple of times a world, it would still be worthwhile to develop if people were afraid of the consequences of it. Under the system we have now, having a village sieged is almost meaningless to a large faction, and carries no lasting penalties.

[SaltyCrate]

I don't think that these changes by themselves would be that much meaningful without touching the problems of siege mechanics. But I see no immediate problems with these ideas and in the world where they would be relevant I think they will work just fine. So +1 from me.
The only potential issue I could point to is that the expected penalty for crime in this system is always death, regardless of if it was caused by single stolen crate or razing entire villages and slaughtering everything that moves. And it pretty much has to be death to prevent instant teleportation shenanigans. But maybe it is acceptable enough.

[MrBunzy]

Bump, I still think this is important, under the new siege system vault hopping would become more prevalent than ever.

[wonder-ass]

very true now that you can just make a vault down on level 9 and the majority of people cant even touch you down there lol.

[MrBunzy]

5 year necro but still relevant... bump?

[Nocturnal-Rainbows]

It may seem like an insignificant problem compared to hearth vaults or siege as a whole, but I think the idea of actions having (theoretical) consequences is pretty central to this game. For a long time there simply have not been consequences to leaving scents, because it is virtually impossible to be subjugated by a more powerful group if you choose opt out of pvp and evacuate in the event of a siege.

I made a thread saying something similar and people took it as me wanting to abolish crimes.
It's quite normal and reasonable to expect that criminal actions come with certain downsides that leave the criminal vulnerable. This is just the reality of 99% of games of a similar nature that you can kill other people in.
I mean that's what outlaw and scents are for. That's even what nidbanes were supposed to be for. Problem is these things are a minor annoyance and not as consequential as they should be.

To that effect, +1 to your post.
Only part I don't agree with is removing the outlaw negatives. Ideally, I'd like to see them made more substantial.
I still think that removing outlaws ability to hearth would be a nasty downside. Makes them more vulnerable outside of their base, makes tracking them more fruitful, and it'll make people think twice about performing criminal acts.
Which is reasonable. In UO if you kill somebody enough times you go Red, you can't go into (most) towns anymore, you have a target on your head and you're fair game to be attacked and killed by other players.

I miss when we had dedicated trackers hunting people down. People don't do that now because it's so easy for the outlaw to get away.
I think your idea combined with outlaw taking away your ability to hearth would be very interesting. Or if not outlaw, then maybe a version of Redhanded which lasts significantly longer (determined by the crime) but not the length of outlaw.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

+1

[overtyped]

I like the idea of people with outlaw being unable to move their hearthfire until outlaw goes away. In fact, it should have been this way from the start.

[SavageFox]

something else I have to add if you're an outlaw your claim protection should be provoked in a way other words people won't leave sense behind when they vandalize your property to kill you they will still need vandalism to do it but they won't leave a scent behind cuz you're a criminal if you're an owner of a claim and one of your so-called friends commit a crime when you told them not to you should be able to Snuff their fire out by using some form of hearth Magic on hearthfires in your claim and kill them or teleport them somewhere randomly in the world away from you at least and I think death by destroying a Hearthfire is a good idea for people that commit crimes it gives people at our weaker and opportunity to kill somebody stronger than them if they're able to get through their walls and get to their fire somehow

also you should be able to be notified if somebody committed a crime against you got killed by somebody he could also make it an experience event too also if your Sheltering a criminal you should lose your claim protection as well but you should have tools to remove them from your property so you don't have to shelter them and you should know if somebody committed in a crime or not by looking at their Hearthfire