Fix these. No, really though.

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby RenatusCartesius » Mon May 12, 2025 3:24 pm

Robben_DuMarsch wrote:
LeeroyJenkns wrote:
AriZona wrote:Be careful what u wish for imho. Short worlds will burn players badly and player base will shrink drastically on top of diluted player base over couple of worlds/servers


I think it's fine. I agree that the current player base might not be enough to populate several worlds of the same enormous size (in terms of land), but if anything, the longer the world goes, the more players get bored and drop the game until a new world begins to enjoy early-mid game, which I think is the most interesting part of progression. If you argue for increasing player engagement, then imo, 6 months is a very good cycle length to ensure players are both excited by the prospect of exploring a new world and have enough time to take a break from the game so that they don't burn out. The issue of boring late game is pretty common in gamedev tbh. Sure, it's possible to make it less boring by adding more content (not happening lol) but it's been proven time and time again that shorter loops are fine and most players don't mind it.


I agree with this sentiment.

I'd also like to note that the very stark low we have now is probably due to the previous announcement of a roughly six month new world, and this world overshooting that.

People know anything made now has a short life, as we are already past when we were supposed to get a new world based on previous announcements.

Also, unlike above poster, I think 6 months is actually slightly longer than it should be. If anything closer to 3 months, with some minor rebalance, would be preferable. Also he's factually wrong, there aren't 12 levels if minehole. -9 is the deepest.


i think ive been deepst to 8th myself, therefore - damn you telling me ive been to one before last mine level
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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby animary » Tue May 13, 2025 1:15 am

AriZona wrote:Regarding #5. H&H is not destined for short worlds because:
A. While there are ppl with very short attention span (like down to few weeks), but there is a significant number who play practically as long as world goes. Some ppl actually join months after, and prefer mature worlds rather the starter. Thus normal worlds can offer both - starter and mature worlds, but not otherwise. Not speaking of burns out when many drop after 1-2 months. This game is marathon as designed now ;)
B. The game designed as it is now is not meant for short worlds because its depth.

To play short worlds it is better to look for other game styles.


I tend to agree. Consensus seems to be that having concurrent worlds - one lasting 4-6 months, the other lasting 18-24 months - would offer a game for everyone. And many people might enjoy playing both.

Shorter worlds for those easily bored, longer worlds for those with more of an rpg play style.

Personally I hate the first month and am not really having fun until about three months in.
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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby Fostik » Tue May 13, 2025 7:46 am

Sorry for hijacking the topic, but speaking on parallel short worlds, it's not necessary have to be same mechanics we have now to imagine fast world. Devs could simply experiment of speeding up world timer 3-5 times it currently is, and game will quickly become looking more like usual steam-community-fiendly survival games nowadays with relatively fast working mechanics like faster curiosities, hunger, food preparation, tree and animal growth.
Losing PvP in such circumstances will burden you lesser and with stat limits it could be really easy to comeback.
I think only fire sources timers will have to remain the same (e.g. fireplace and cauldron not to run off fuel to fast), as well as claim and wall drying/soaking.

Indeed with current world pace it's just pointless to do parallel worlds, but having this fast demo worlds with complete chaos might give community to get their pvp content easier, and come or return to real old persistent world when they decide so.
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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby LeeroyJenkns » Tue May 13, 2025 10:14 am

Fostik wrote:Devs could simply experiment of speeding up world timer 3-5 times it currently is, and game will quickly become looking more like usual steam-community-fiendly survival games nowadays with relatively fast working mechanics like faster curiosities, hunger, food preparation, tree and animal growth.


I think it's already been mentioned a couple times but this kind of balancing is directly against the core principles of the game according to Jorb. Full raw hide to leather cycle could take just 24 hours or less to complete, but this will never happen because being "irl speed" is one of the main features of the game. Or at least I believe this is the case. The man himself doesn't read posts in c&i nor interact with them so it's hard to say for sure.
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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby OIchi » Tue May 13, 2025 7:04 pm

LeeroyJenkns wrote:
Fostik wrote:Devs could simply experiment of speeding up world timer 3-5 times it currently is, and game will quickly become looking more like usual steam-community-fiendly survival games nowadays with relatively fast working mechanics like faster curiosities, hunger, food preparation, tree and animal growth.


I think it's already been mentioned a couple times but this kind of balancing is directly against the core principles of the game according to Jorb. Full raw hide to leather cycle could take just 24 hours or less to complete, but this will never happen because being "irl speed" is one of the main features of the game. Or at least I believe this is the case. The man himself doesn't read posts in c&i nor interact with them so it's hard to say for sure.


"irl speed"... Of course, because trees grow up to their full size in a week, animals grow up in few days and you only get really hungry every few weeks.
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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby Nightdawg » Wed May 14, 2025 12:32 am

OIchi wrote:"irl speed"... Of course, because trees grow up to their full size in a week, animals grow up in few days and you only get really hungry every few weeks.


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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby caz » Wed May 14, 2025 12:45 am

+1000
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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby Hingle_McCringle » Thu May 15, 2025 4:31 am

Robben_DuMarsch wrote:Also, unlike above poster, I think 6 months is actually slightly longer than it should be. If anything closer to 3 months, with some minor rebalance, would be preferable. Also he's factually wrong, there aren't 12 levels if minehole. -9 is the deepest.


3 months may be enough for a veteran player who knows how to min/max or players who are in a village or bottling, But for a casual player who doesn’t want to sell their soul and everyone waking moment of their life to this game, I think 3 months would be a struggle to do anything meaningful before it’s all wiped away.

I would add that being short and having the server more populated means great struggles for the casual player to be able to get localized resources. They are either all picked clean constantly or you run great risk of being attacked. So if you only run 3 month worlds there is a chance those types of players stop playing all together as they never get a chance to experience those aspects of the game. as it stands now you just buy your time until the world dies off and stops being so damn competitive so you go learn more about the game.
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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby Lao_Bao » Fri May 16, 2025 12:49 am

1. Winter should be winter, a character without clothes that have a good ability to retain heat should freeze, catch a cold, and get sick. Houses need to be heated.
2. the same thing with the rain, the character got wet - got sick, swam in his clothes, did not change his clothes, got sick
3. In heavy armor, he quickly lost his stamina and sank.
4. Summer is no less dangerous, with sunstroke, drought, and fires. You can lose your crops, an invasion of locusts and other beetles.
5. There should be no concessions.
6. How did you see this world by its name Haven and Heart!
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Re: Fix these. No, really though.

Postby animary » Sat May 17, 2025 7:23 pm

"Winter should be winter, a character without clothes that have a good ability to retain heat should freeze, catch a cold, and get sick. Houses need to be heated."

An interesting concept ...for established players. But this would seriously affect newcomers who start during winter, they would be doomed before even having a chance to prepare.
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