>>> RAGNARÖK PROTOCOL <<< When Worlds Must End

[Rebs]

One Hour One Life gave players the ability to end worlds. and it ended poorly. basically turned into a speed run and ending the world was the goal. was horrible honestly.

Yeah, it's unclear how to overcome that. Should that be embraced for a couple of worlds - let them rise and burn fast until the opposite player faction that wants a long world is established, and then give them enough tools to save the world?

Think about the first week, the majority of people get raided, get killed before palisades, and the majority of those people make a new character, a new base, more locations and get back on the horse. Yes there are people who would cry and scream and not play, but I don't think that is the majority though. I also have a feeling that if someone is on that stage of completion and grinding and then gets raided they might get reinvigorated. Also 99% of the player base don't even get to enjoy raiding each other these days which of course is a lot of fun.. I know I went on a bit of a tangent there at the end here but my point is, being raided and left with nothing is the reset that you are after and imagine if everyone everywhere is constantly being raided but each other no one would be able to progress quickly, even the big dogs will be brought down a peg. - you might think this just leaves 1 group with all the spoils but I beg to differ.

Thank you for bearing with me on this topic and sharing yout rhoughts. The point about raiding as a form of reset feels very insightful - you’re probably right. Once a palisade is established, everything becomes routine, and after all that grind you don’t want to lose your progress. How would you say sieges should work, then? And how strong should palisades be? Should it get to the point where it’s impossible for a hermit to establish any kind of safe base?

I think you shouldn't be left in a state of bliss and peace after a palisade is set. Brick walls, maybe. Back when you would log on and someone with high enough STR had hand-bashed your base, you’d pack up whatever was left and move on. It was punishing for sure, but every time a new base was made and the content loop was reset it gave us more to achieve. “Can I get to metal before being raided this time?” “Can I learn to fight back?” “Can I find alliances in the area to call for help?” I know waking up with your base bashed and looted is a punch in the gut, but it means you get to run through the content again and do it better and faster. And not only that—you can take revenge or raid someone else to catch up again. The day Haven turned into Farmville instead of Rust is when the game lost its heart.

Raiding should be easy enough that anyone can really do it, and fast enough to catch people off guard so it gives people a chance to reset someone further ahead than you. It should be fucking chaos out there in the Hearthlands.

Give us a strongbox or a hearth fire void box where we can keep a few items safe per account—like a chest-sized void we can access via our hearth fire where we can store things no one else can get even if we’re raided. That way you can at least save some progression after each base. I think that’s all we would really need IMO (yes, I know this can already be done with alts, but I would prefer a "official" mechanic that is obvious for new players that also isn't at risk of just logging on and getting killed and losing those items). Hard to realistically implement because even if it’s account-bound people would just spam accounts to make multiple vaults, but you get my point—give us a way of “saving” SOME progress (mostly quality stuff, backup palisade supplies, etc.) so that if we log on and our base is gone it’s not the end of the world. Also could limit raiding impact by adding a limit on how many items can be stolen from a claim every day, switch this out with authority, sometimes things can just be simple. bashing claim poles should still require a hefty cost using high end siege equipment, but yeah a wrecking ball or sledge hammer should take down a palisade.

IMO a palisade really should just give players enough time to grab important gear and log out or prepare to fight back. Brick walls should be the only countermeasure to knowing your stuff will still be there when you log back in the next day.

“What if you go on holiday?” – you start again, with whatever tools and gear you (alt-)vaulted.
“What if I play for 2 weeks and can’t play for a weekend?” – start again ^
“What if …” – START AGAIN ^^^

There will always be people in any game that are better geared and better skilled than you. Saying “I won’t play 4 months into a world because other people are already set up” is not a good excuse for world resets to be a thing. It’s lame. And yes—even considering how hard the catch-up is.

[animary]

"Should it get to the point where it’s impossible for a hermit to establish any kind of safe base?"

This would kill the game. I would venture the majority of the player base qualify as hermits, even if a few may band together in one world to build a village or large farm, in the next they are probably solo again. Remove their safety and you eventually remove them, then what is left? A comparatively few strong players who are making steel and killing bears in the first three weeks of a world, have accomplished everything and gotten bored within four months and start crying for a new world.

I was hopeful of what I heard when the game went to Steam - two worlds, a short one lasting around six months for one group, and a longer one, a year or more, for those who prefer the more casual play. Whether that will come to pass still seems undecided; but I would enjoy a longer world (I'm usually not really enjoying the game until 5-6 months in).

[Rebs]

"Should it get to the point where it’s impossible for a hermit to establish any kind of safe base?"

This would kill the game. I would venture the majority of the player base qualify as hermits, even if a few may band together in one world to build a village or large farm, in the next they are probably solo again. Remove their safety and you eventually remove them, then what is left? A comparatively few strong players who are making steel and killing bears in the first three weeks of a world, have accomplished everything and gotten bored within four months and start crying for a new world.

I was hopeful of what I heard when the game went to Steam - two worlds, a short one lasting around six months for one group, and a longer one, a year or more, for those who prefer the more casual play. Whether that will come to pass still seems undecided; but I would enjoy a longer world (I'm usually not really enjoying the game until 5-6 months in).

Safety should be considered temporary. TBH even right now hermits who only get to palisades and play casually could be sieged while offline there is no such thing as safe. I argue that this falsity is what ruins the perception of the game, you shouldn't be comfy this isn't farmvile. And I actually think you are dead wrong too, the majority of the active player base are not hermits, small groups of 2-4 are much my abundant.

Also there is rulebook saying hermits should be able to survive in Haven solo, Its totally acceptable to say "Hey you can play solo but its going to be hard, you will likely die or be raided, you should probs think about paying tributes, join a larger group, hide I the edges of the world and make a lot of friends"

[animary]

"...99% of the player base don't even get to enjoy raiding each other these days which of course is a lot of fun"

For some, no doubt. I would find no enjoyment nor fun from doing that. If I am not being threatened I would look at another farm/village and think of all the work its owner put into it and have no desire to destroy that.

I realize I am definitely in the minority here, but that is irrelevant. We each live by our own concepts of ethics.

[SpacePig]

I dreamed of a wipe on W16, I was sitting in a cave and looking through Shift.

[animary]

"...you’d pack up whatever was left and move on. It was punishing for sure, but every time a new base was made and the content loop was reset it gave us more to achieve."

It also gives many a "why bother" attitude.

You bust your buns building a nice farm and someone comes along and trashes it. Why? Because it is there. So you regroup and build another farm, and it get trashed. Why? Because it is there. So you say "screw this sh*t" and move on to some other game.

But apparently some consider the point of this game is for the "lowlife" hermits to build things for the exalted players to destroy. And when there aren't enough new places to destroy it is time for a new world.

[Halbertz]

If only there was a way to protect your property...

https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=72166

[Rebs]

"...you’d pack up whatever was left and move on. It was punishing for sure, but every time a new base was made and the content loop was reset it gave us more to achieve."

It also gives many a "why bother" attitude.

You bust your buns building a nice farm and someone comes along and trashes it. Why? Because it is there. So you regroup and build another farm, and it get trashed. Why? Because it is there. So you say "screw this sh*t" and move on to some other game.

But apparently some consider the point of this game is for the "lowlife" hermits to build things for the exalted players to destroy. And when there aren't enough new places to destroy it is time for a new world.

I repeat, This is not meant to be farmvile.

[linkfanpc]

“What if you go on holiday?” – you start again, with whatever tools and gear you (alt-)vaulted.
“What if I play for 2 weeks and can’t play for a weekend?” – start again ^
“What if …” – START AGAIN ^^^

Assuming you aren't trolling you clearly play this game too casually akin to DayZ or something, or haven't played since Legacy when a week or so let you see most of the game. Losing a 3 week or 3 month old settlement over a weekend is objectively unfun and bad game design. The point of this game's gameplay loop is the very beginning is a survival game and as soon as you set up your palisade it becomes something more akin to a city builder, while your character is still playing a survival game where if you die you lose them, but retain your settlement. Your settlement being mostly permanent is a necessary element to the game.

I hate the people that want this game to be harmless farmville but you're just as bad on the opposite side if you seriously think what you said.

“Can I learn to fight back?” “Can I find alliances in the area to call for help?”

you can take revenge or raid someone else to catch up again

It should be fucking chaos out there in the Hearthlands.

"Should" is a weird word to use when describing changing the entire gameplay loop. What you mean is "I want it to be fucking chaos out there" at which point you are unfortunately in the same boat as the people who want PvP disabled, crippled, or a PvE server added; sorry, you're playing the wrong game.

Give us a strongbox or a hearth fire void box where we can keep a few items safe per account

Hard to realistically implement because even if it’s account-bound people would just spam accounts to make multiple vaults, but you get my point

"i want chaos, i should be able to affect those who are stronger and have more time to play than me. Add this mechanic! I know those who are stronger and have more time to play than me will abuse it so as to circumvent the entire limitation meant to put us on an even playing field and making me the only one at mercy of the chaos, but ehh..."

[Rebs]

“What if you go on holiday?” – you start again, with whatever tools and gear you (alt-)vaulted.
“What if I play for 2 weeks and can’t play for a weekend?” – start again ^
“What if …” – START AGAIN ^^^

Assuming you aren't trolling you clearly play this game too casually akin to DayZ or something, or haven't played since Legacy when a week or so let you see most of the game. Losing a 3 week or 3 month old settlement over a weekend is objectively unfun and bad game design. The point of this game's gameplay loop is the very beginning is a survival game and as soon as you set up your palisade it becomes something more akin to a city builder, while your character is still playing a survival game where if you die you lose them, but retain your settlement. Your settlement being mostly permanent is a necessary element to the game.

.

Yes, the game should play more like DayZ or Rust. Yes, things take longer, but let’s be honest: they have had to slow us down with time-gating mine levels. Even now, the majority of the content can be done or at least set up within the first month. The only way the game can organically slow the player base down is to allow us all to crab bucket each other. It takes 2–3 days to get a palisade, so you can be safe for months on end just because you reach leather?

It should be fucking chaos out there in the Hearthlands.

"Should" is a weird word to use when describing changing the entire gameplay loop. What you mean is "I want it to be fucking chaos out there" at which point you are unfortunately in the same boat as the people who want PvP disabled, crippled, or a PvE server added; sorry, you're playing the wrong game.

Give us a strongbox or a hearth fire void box where we can keep a few items safe per account

Hard to realistically implement because even if it’s account-bound people would just spam accounts to make multiple vaults, but you get my point

"i want chaos, i should be able to affect those who are stronger and have more time to play than me. Add this mechanic! I know those who are stronger and have more time to play than me will abuse it so as to circumvent the entire limitation meant to put us on an even playing field and making me the only one at mercy of the chaos, but ehh..."

My point here was that people use ALT Vaults already. Some people are dumb and need a "HEY PUT YOUR VALUABLES IN A PLACE SOMEONE CAN’T GET THEM" mechanic, so when they do get their arse beat and their Q1 dried hides get stolen they still have something. It’s typical early game, for example, to alt vault the first 10 extra spare leather with bone glue in case shit goes down. How many newbies make a palisade thinking they are safe, leave their leather out and about, and then someone bashes the pali 5 hours later resetting them completely. One of the reasons they gave us alts in the first place is because people would multi-account, and it leaves those who don’t multi-account at a disadvantage.
Thus my point.

I believe that people are stubborn, and I fully believe the majority of players, even new players, would enjoy the harsher worlds if it was also possible for them to do it. In the first week the majority of crimes are new players, they steal and fight each other as much as the next guy. The issue arises when they lose their shit and they have no way at all of getting it back or any real option to if it’s behind a palisade, unless they ask for faction help. Everyone moans about "bad griefers", they exist because is no repercussions for their crimes (for the most part). If palisades were less formidable, people would be less willing to leave their scents, leading the hordes of possible pali-bashers to their gates.

You underestimate the determination of players. Sure, it’s not for everyone, but everyone sitting behind their walls making numbers bigger over time is not really a vibe either. Everyone quits, then there is no more content. Not everyone quits when they have to replay content.