add more noobs

[Newbie53]

Add reasons for new players to start playing this game*

That'd mean altering the perma death mechanic as that's what turns a lot of people away from the game. That paired with toxic trolls who go out of their way to harass everyone weaker than them anyways.
Trolls who will stalk your base for hours on end waiting for a chance to catch you off guard to kill you and reset all your progress cause they find it funny. The same trolls who go out of their way to locate and kill live streamers thus no one can safely stream this game publicly which means less publicity which means less people. And when they kill you, they ALWAYS steal your body so your next character only Inherits 15% of the deceased character's stats compared to 45% from being allowed to bury your body.

[SnuggleSnail]

I was a new player once and the only reason I stuck around was the permadeath
Also probably the only reason I ever heard of the game
Kindof a shame it's not rly part of the game anymore

[Nightdawg]

Add reasons for new players to start playing this game*

That'd mean altering the perma death mechanic as that's what turns a lot of people away from the game. That paired with toxic trolls who go out of their way to harass everyone weaker than them anyways.
Trolls who will stalk your base for hours on end waiting for a chance to catch you off guard to kill you and reset all your progress cause they find it funny. The same trolls who go out of their way to locate and kill live streamers thus no one can safely stream this game publicly which means less publicity which means less people. And when they kill you, they ALWAYS steal your body so your next character only Inherits 15% of the deceased character's stats compared to 45% from being allowed to bury your body.

I'm not arguing against you

[vatas]

from: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=75805&hilit=death&start=20#p934814

I think some changes to Legacy permadeath were absolutely necessary. "Survivability onion" or the like for a new player that isn't directly recruited to an existing village:

1) No Palisade.

Hope nobody with Rage/Murder finds you, because they likely can just club you to death like a baby seal (kind of defeatist, but chances are the attacker is carrying more water, especially if he is after some seal clubbing specifically.)

2) Palisade, but no Brick Wall yet.

Hope nobody who can palibash finds you during the time it takes to acquire brickwall materials.

3) Brick Wall.

Any time you dare venture outside, there is a risk that someone much more prepared for a PvP encounter attacks and permakills you.

==PROBLEM WITH JORB CHANGES==

Like Snail already pointed out, key operative word is probably "convoluted." There are so many factors involved, many of them outright counter-intuitive. The simplest example is that you're being chased by someone with two-handed axe, and your escape route is blocked by a deep river. So obviously you should just swim across? Using that kind of common sense in this particular scenario gets you killed with almost 100% certainty. All the axeman needs to do is to use a big attack during the swim, and your character is stuck drowning to death.

"Well, he has a massive axe, he would kill me anyway?" NOPE, that is where "KO protection" comes in. If attacker fails to land a hit that directly kills target (only KO), game doesn't let the target be hit anymore (can still be looted) and unless they actively change the KO Window from "Travel back to your hearth fire" to "Remain in place" they will teleport to safety (assuming their HF location is secure, which it should be.) This does NOT work while in deep water, because Jorb insists that Deep Water should be dangerous (honestly he kind of has a point, but it is far too easy to drown people -other way is to KO person in a boat, then bash the boat, game only registers Assault and Battery instead of murder despite direct causality between attack and target drowning. Not sure if people care but aside from making the KO 100% lethal, scent timer is also reduced from 8d8h to 2d16h)

And to reiterate the "convoluted" -aspect, you also need to check your equipment screen immediately after waking up - the attacker may have put leeches on you, that will KO you again since you are at 1 SHP, and leech KO is as severe as any other KO (I once got into an argument about this, someone insisted that of course you get Concussion if you faint from blood loss and hit your head on the way down. My only recourse was to complain that my character got up and went down again before he could even finish the animation (in-game logic: Hearthling gets up instead of removing leeches that he should be aware caused him to go down; game design logic: something like a one-second window to act before another leech bites.)

==MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE FACTIONBOI PERSPECTIVE==

Jorb has managed to create a system where it is easy to permakill random hermits and sprucecaps, but because all the convoluted ways he has applied, in hopes of them not dying, also apply to factionbois - you can't actually kill people in faction PvP. There's a separate argument that this is a good thing because otherwise there would be a snowball effect of one faction winning fights and having to fight weaker opponents next time, because they're still in processs o rebuilding their characters. Also, their equipment was most likely looted (it is common practice to drop everything on a character to the ground after KO even if you don't need any of the gear yourself, just to deny them from the target.)


==CAN THIS BE SOLVED?==

Dunno, most "simple" solutions tend to be about just adding in more "convolution."

Small addendum:

Legacy had change/tradition slider together with einher bonus. Most of PvPers were on tradition that made it impractical to study any curios meanwhile letting other people to catch up with them and it was not really a problem to catch up. Plus the combat system allowed to take down someone who had stat advantage. I think it would be just better to back to full permadeath since it is mostly just larpers and sprucecaps murdered the way ko mechanic currently works and the faction people rarely get punished with a permadeath. Even If you would track someone after he murders a spruce cap all you can do is just a ko which is stupid.

Whatever, it seems they rather just add a new food or a hat or some useless content instead of fixing fundamental issue, it is all pointless waste of time and energy to post anything serious in the forums. The years of development hasnt contributed to the player count at all which is still on par with legacy 2-3 year old worlds player count when there was 0 development and idk why they even bother continuing on the same path which seems insane for me

[vosmihui]

I was recently thinking about player-controlled netbans.
They can't pass through walls or visitor gates, attack other players except their target, or take damage from them, but they can teleport to their target and don't need water to run at speed 4.
And to summon them, you just need to log in after death.
Well, if a netban is killed, it simply respawns after 8 hours, until its spirit calms down after three months, or until the killer dies.

[Fostik]

I was recently thinking about player-controlled netbans.
They can't pass through walls or visitor gates, attack other players except their target, or take damage from them, but they can teleport to their target and don't need water to run at speed 4.
And to summon them, you just need to log in after death.
Well, if a netban is killed, it simply respawns after 8 hours, until its spirit calms down after three months, or until the killer dies.

I get it, it sounds like going to work for you or any other hermit, but can you imagine how much harm will this cause to normal pvp?

[animary]

Just allow people to hearth from player attack, but not from animal attacks. Unless you're caught near your HF you have an escape option.

[vosmihui]

I get it, it sounds like going to work for you or any other hermit, but can you imagine how much harm will this cause to normal pvp?

I don't care about PvP at all; I want to hurt genkers and griefers more than they hurt me.

Don't kill people in PvP, knock them out, take their stuff, and you won't get punished for it at all.

Everyone spouts this bullshit about problems in PvP: just take their stuff if someone goes down. If they stay down, the next time they go down, they'll definitely die from a stun, and it won't be a kill.

What's so bad about not turning on kills and not finishing off a downed player? How will that make PvP worse? On the contrary, there will be more PvP because people will stop being afraid of dying after the first gank.

[Newbie53]

Just allow people to hearth from player attack, but not from animal attacks. Unless you're caught near your HF you have an escape option.

This game has no "normal" pvp outside of Valhalla. Everywhere else, it's just endgame players harassing everyone they can till they quit the game out of frustration.

[SpacePig]

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