Removing tradeable sub tokens and hats

[Frogg]

This is why we need an ironman mode. Maybe even an ironman server.

[spiritualatom]

I was actually referring to the reply above mine.

Gotcha

This is why we need an ironman mode. Maybe even an ironman server.

Hard agree

Actually, the fundamentals that the current version of the game was launched on were "Pay real money for play time", so one could argue that what we have right now is not so bad. Such an argument is of course idiotic.
Anyways, current "fundamentals" are something like this: "Sell gold subs, hats and tokens = profit ". I very much doubt that there exists a solution that would overcome the developers greed and change things for the better. But thanks for the reminder of the good old days, I guess.

Yeah for sure we can agree on the current situation and it not being ideal. I don't know though I have faith in Jorb and Loftar, think if they were purely profit motivated a lot of things would look very different.
But also think it's important for the players that are against creator sanctioned p2w WOW-tokens be vocal about it. There are other ways to fund the game, I'd rather pay more for the base sub to not have to deal with tradeable tokens/hats etc.
I think the worst possible economical impact on the game long term would come from mechanics that are incoherent, allows content skipping through RL money and devalues casual progression. That puts the core audience off and attracts I don't know what..

Its a choice to skip content.
No one is holding you at gun point to skip tool making and quality grind.
I still know many people who refuse to use markets and are playing solo self found.
Why cant you?

I'm for compensating them more dude. I think I pay more than your average player and think they deserve a lot of players doing that. But it's a question about how you do that. Does that compensation at any point overshadow the integrity of the game state? Then it should be looked at.

Yeah I am self found and plan to be going forward. So in case it wasn't clear this is a critique of the game design, where currently there are p2w elements that in previous iterations weren't there. And how it detracts from the overall vision of the game.

[azrid]

We will also get back massive rmt trades on black market without tokens.
It will look good on the surface for you but for the rest of us who actually enjoy playing on markets we lose huge investments of time over multiple worlds.
Whose gonna bail out all the people who have massive hoards of tokens?
I'm sure you are willing to make that sacrifice since you aren't in that boat.

[Audiosmurf]

Yeah, azrid is on the money, there's not really a way to roll this back that doesn't explode in your face, though I do kind of like the idea of one of the incremental worlds' (16.whatever) "experimental feature" being ironman mode where nobody gets to bring in any items.

[spiritualatom]

It will look good on the surface for you but for the rest of us who actually enjoy playing on markets we lose huge investments of time over multiple worlds.

BTW that highlights something I didn't know that adds to the insanity for me xd So you guys "playing the trade game" are hoarding p2w IRL money WOW-tokens stored between worlds, gaining advantages in supposedly "fresh" worlds by coming in with those. OMEGALUL dude, yeah but let's defend it because you people have been hoarding them alas you should be able to keep doing that. And if you're against it you're against Jorb and Loftar making money is the argument we're pulling? Na, maybe that's just harmful to the eco of the game bro.

"You're living in a mutable and ever changing world. Where consequences matter.. If your neighbor built somewhere you object to you may commit the ultimate sin of man and slay him then level his holdings.." Unless your neighbor came in from the previous world with 200 sub tokens, thingwalled to a market and bought the highest quality available stuff while you were finding cassiterite.

Yeah, azrid is on the money, there's not really a way to roll this back that doesn't explode in your face, though I do kind of like the idea of one of the incremental worlds' (16.whatever) "experimental feature" being ironman mode where nobody gets to bring in any items.

Yeah I honestly think that's a really good solution. Alternative iron man server for those who want opt out of the current situation would be ideal. Don't get me wrong I don't want to hamper anyones ability to hoard p2w WOW-tokens, I just dont wanna be part of that ecosystem.

[Dawidio123]

+1 on rmt just coming back around (moreso than it is now since it's not exactly prohibited just heavily frowned upon by the devs afaik) if they ever decide to remove tokens.

[azrid]

Please elaborate on your vision.
What would happen to all the token and hat holders? Just put them in a different server away from you?
What would this ironman server look like?
If its just a world without tokens its not really ironman is it?
How would you envision the game to change to disallow trading between players like actual ironman mode would? Or do you not care about making an actual ironman mode?
I would also like to know how would you deal with rmt coming back since tokens are gone. Are you okay with money moving from person to person rather than to the developers in form of token sales?
Are you willing to sacrifice the wallet of the developers for your vision of the game?
How much more do you think the ironman players(you) deserve to pay to cover the loss of revenue?

I'm really curious to find out what you think of these questions.

[spiritualatom]

+1 on rmt just coming back around (moreso than it is now since it's not exactly prohibited just heavily frowned upon by the devs afaik) if they ever decide to remove tokens.

Yeah let's be real with our terms though, sub tokens are pretty damn close to straight RMT and is decidedly pay 2 win. With money going to the developers sure. But yeah I totally get the point that non-developer-RMT would increase if you just blanket implemented it on live without any other features/considerations.

What would happen to all the token and hat holders? Just put them in a different server away from you?
What would this ironman server look like?

So do a 5$ or even 10$ monthly sub you'd have to have on top of normal sub to be able to play on the iron man servers. No hats, sub tokens. And maybe also no Thingwalls/charterstones/TPs(outside of to your own heartfire) so that you'd have more localized gameplay and to a larger extent be bound to where you settled. That would discourage the real money market hubs we're seeing on live by making them much more inconvenient. Also removing Material account notes would probably be good.

I mean I don't think it's just me who is drawn to the hardcore elements of original H&H (permadeath, slow progression, harsh world, intricate systems) and I really think these cozy little global real money tokens you can have between worlds breaks with that idea. It will for sure impact the game negatively to not deal with this too by alienating players who read the about page and wants that, not whatever this sub token eco is..

[azrid]

Yea I don't think thats happening.
You'll have to make it a lot more appealing to the devs and players for your idea to be seriously considered.

If they did do your idea it will just be a repeat of legacy server that has no players.
You think you want it but you don't.

[spiritualatom]

Yea I don't think thats happening.
You'll have to make it a lot more appealing to the devs and players for your idea to be seriously considered.

If they did do your idea it will just be a repeat of legacy server that has no players.
You think you want it but you don't.

Yeah I get that you wanna keep your sub tokens man. But if you at this point can't contribute anything outside of "na not happening" then it's better not to.