P2P plan

[LadyV]

im guessing this is the new haven server?

Indeed. Practically no one on the old one.

[jorb]

Practically no one on the old one.

gj ...

... is that some salt I detect?

[Russaria]

Practically no one on the old one.

gj ...

... is that some salt I detect?

I thought that was your whole point? to create that very thing, after all, such an intense direct planned out vomit and piss into everyone's face had to be for that intentional giggle and gaff purpose right? Or did you mean, "hey. is that some salt I detect"..as in Yes please? Makers our flutter to see it"...lol

[jorb]

I thought that was your whole point? to create that very thing, after all, such an intense direct planned out vomit and piss into everyone's face had to be for that intentional giggle and gaff purpose right? Or did you mean, "hey. is that some salt I detect"..as in Yes please? Makers our flutter to see it"...lol

I've built a game for that you may enjoy for free. For the past seven-ish years I have provided it.

"piss and vomit in everyone's face"

Do tell me more.

[Amanda44]

Why, you refuse to acknowledge any concerns over the new system and how it has been implemented, even when it's discussed politely and intelligently and defer almost all concerns as being relevant to us being reluctant to part with cash ......

And, why should you, for the past seven-ish years the community has done nothing for you, not provided you with anything at all, you don't have to provide us with a single thing and certainly not even a couple of free hrs at launch, or prior to launch, for the regulars on legacy to shed a tear and say goodbye ... we are sooo ungrateful, it's shocking!

It makes more sense to reward loyalty than to crush it, esp if you intend to make a profit out of it.

[jorb]

Why, you refuse to acknowledge any concerns over the new system and how it has been implemented, even when it's discussed politely and intelligently and defer almost all concerns as being relevant to us being reluctant to part with cash ......

But this is not true. I have been, and am, and have always been, very willing to "acknowledge concerns", and to have a discussion about how the game can best be monetized. In no way, shape, or form am I wed to anything in the present setup, and I do not at all insist that it is perfect. If it brings in more money and makes people happier I'd love to just sell hats, or whatever. If you have better ideas then by all means lets hear them. If the bottom line of those ideas, however, is "stop charging money, deliver updates for free and set up a donation account", well...

And, why should you, for the past seven-ish years the community has done nothing for you, not provided you with anything at all, you don't have to provide us with a single thing and certainly not even a couple of free hrs at launch, or prior to launch, for the regulars on legacy to shed a tear and say goodbye ... we are sooo ungrateful, it's shocking!

I give you things for free, provide at least minimal support for it, and you get mad when I stop doing it because you now consider our gifts your privilege...? Yeah, that sounds pretty ungrateful to me.

I appreciate everyone who has stuck around, provided moral support for the game during dark times, posted on the forums and enjoyed themselves in the game, donated(!) and whatnot. That is not unimportant, and I do thank you all very sincerely for it, but I am also not going to pretend that this now somehow makes us all equal partners in a joint venture. The bottom line remains that we have been providing the community fun for free for several years, while asking for nothing material in return, and that the simple act of ever making the game publicly available was in itself more than could have been expected of anyone. I think most people see this obvious fact for what it is, and find it extremely uncontroversial, and if you are going to argue against self-evident truth then there is, indeed, no meaningful basis for further discussion, and I am not going to belabor the point.

That being said, yes, perhaps some free time in the old game could have been a good idea. I'll consider that.

[biohazard]

if the game ever get to the point to be a commercial success ppl will be willing to invest RL money for commodities (given that most mmo out there ppl pave their way buying and selling in-game stuff), given that I would again suggest exp modifier ticket (ie 1usd ea) instead of the subscription system, which for a game like HnH can work modestly well and creates a safe way to ppl to invest and trade RL money for stuff ingame, lets say they could trade 10 tickets for a good sword that his village aint producing

[Amanda44]

Why, you refuse to acknowledge any concerns over the new system and how it has been implemented, even when it's discussed politely and intelligently and defer almost all concerns as being relevant to us being reluctant to part with cash ......

But this is not true.

But you are still doing it .....

If the bottom line of those ideas, however, is "stop charging money, deliver updates for free and set up a donation account", well...

I give you things for free, provide at least minimal support for it, and you get mad when I stop doing it because you now consider our gifts your privilege...?

The bottom line remains that we have been providing the community fun for free for several years, while asking for nothing material in return, and that the simple act of ever making the game publicly available was in itself more than could have been expected of anyone.

I do understand that you have had a lot of people who are specifically unhappy about the financial aspect and think the game should be free but not all of us who are unhappy agree with that, I am one of them, not once since this has started or anywhere in the post above am I implying that .....

And, why should you, for the past seven-ish years the community has done nothing for you, not provided you with anything at all, you don't have to provide us with a single thing and certainly not even a couple of free hrs at launch, or prior to launch, for the regulars on legacy to shed a tear and say goodbye ... we are sooo ungrateful, it's shocking!

Yeah, that sounds pretty ungrateful to me.

It didn't occur to you that the people who have followed this game for years do so out of a love for the game, the community and you devs and that there would be an element of disappointment and feeling let down? Doesn't the impression of being ungrateful extend both ways in a situation where both parties feel a commitment irrelevant of which party feels more justified.

That being said, yes, perhaps some free time in the old game could have been a good idea. I'll consider that.

Thank you.

Putting the p2p bit aside for just one minute ..... for the regulars, the players that come back year after year, world after world, contribute to the game and the community Haven is not just any old game we play, we want it to do well, to grow, improve, we want this because we love it, it's where we spend our free time .....
No, we are in no way equal partners but we feel like we have an investment in it and that is as it should be, other players come and go as we do in other games but Haven is 'ours' almost as much as it is yours, whether you like it or not, lol. (You shouldn't have given us such a good game!) And it is the core members who drive the game and ultimately will push it forward.

Back to p2p .... personally I was happy that you guys planned to monetize the new version, onwards and upwards, I would love to see Haven become an established game and loved by thousands, I would have loved to have seen you guys get something back for all your hard work and effort ..... I was so excited on launch day with all the people on the forum, lol, ask Loftar ...

Then, WHAM! You come charging in with no proper planning, no concerns for your regular playing base, no adequate payment system or even for some an acceptable payment plan ..... you guys have this thing about making everything over complicated, lol ..... ( the majority of your player base are children, lol, maybe you are trying to educate them .... ) and now we are back to where we were before, in fact we are probably worse off ..... a lot of regulars have left, out of those of us that gave it a go quite a few are now slowly drifting away and when the new players get raided and killed or can't survive the harsher environment and quit like they always do, lol, what will become of Haven then?

It's heartbreaking to watch ...... so you see, it's not because we are being selfish or don't want to pay, it's because we love the game and don't want to see it fail.

[jorb]

Still doing what? From my perspective it is not that I am dismissing any argument you're making concerning the store, it is that you're simply not presenting any! You talk about our mistakes on launch, but we admitted a bunch of them them the first thing we did, and we immediately changed a bunch of things around where we felt that the feedback we got was justified, and we have been getting better feedback since doing so. I have largely moved on from that, and am looking toward the future. I would love ideas on how to improve the store, the payment model, the free-to-play aspect, but dwelling on the past is just not a functional attitude.

My sales figures are quite adequate for the present, and are enough to motivate further development and commitment to the game, but not enough to retire. I take this as the most real, honest, and no bullshit feedback I can get that we are doing at least some things right, and I hope that we can continue to do so. I am sorry that you are not pleased with the payment model as it sits, I would love to hear what you'd find more reasonable, I do not want to be or appear dismissive of anyone (except a very select handful), but I also realize that I cannot please everyone at all times, and I am fine with all of that.

We consider the entire game -- store, platform, and everything included -- a work in progress, and always have. We will continue to wing it, try our best, fail and try again, making mistakes all along the way, and hopefully also some progress in-between.

Even if we fucked up royally it really just doesn't matter. The only thing we can ever do is pick up the pieces and move on to something better.

[Amanda44]

Still doing what? From my perspective it is not that I am dismissing any argument you're making concerning the store, it is that you're simply not presenting any!

Yes, it seems we are talking at cross purposes ..... I did give idea's at the start and I have done since but the forum is pretty fast paced at the moment and things get overlooked .... my intent today was at explaining that some off the drop off isn't just about the money or that you don't deserve it, brought on by your comment to Borka and the guy that then posted afterwards, it felt unfair to tar all the people that are unhappy or have left with the same brush .... or level of vitriol, when that is not the case.

I read the post you quoted, it did indeed inspire a waiting period ..... from what I've seen you have been inundated with ideas on how to improve the store and payment model, as it remains the same I would assume none of them seem to have made any impact with you, I hardly think my input would fair any better and has been covered by others anyway.

If you've learnt from the past there is no need to dwell on it.

Even if we fucked up royally it really just doesn't matter. The only thing we can ever do is pick up the pieces and move on to something better.

It probably matters to the people who got left behind, but, ofc, it is all we can ever do .....