P2P plan

[molenga]

That being said, I think 14 hours a week for verified accounts is a bit low, it should be at least 24h refilled everyweek imho, and if you want to play more then that you can buy a subscription.

24 hours per week means that you spend one seventh of your *total* time playing H&H. I think any reasonable examination of the facts will give that this is simply far too much. The circuit of potential customers who would at that point have any sort of benefit of a subscription is -- without having checked -- probably not much more than a handful, and in most of their cases the benefit would probably not end up being more than a few hours per week needed extra, which clearly makes any sort of reasonable pricing difficult.

Xsolla is advancing, at least. Delay is not on our side of the equation.

With the exception of those times when you are on vacation, unemployed or have no life.

So what do I do when I fit in all these 3 parameters?

I got to only 7 hours left of gametime, and due to my addiction I decided that instead of waiting for xsolla to cooperate I just went out and bought a pre paid credit card to buy the subscription, just waiting for the credit to be confirmed by the card.

Maybe instead of gametime subscription players could have small benefits as well, like a small boost in the amount of xp they receive? Not a lot as to break the game balance but enough to make it an enjoyable bonus for those who purchase the subscriptions.

[molenga]

That being said, I think 14 hours a week for verified accounts is a bit low, it should be at least 24h refilled everyweek imho, and if you want to play more then that you can buy a subscription.

24 hours per week means that you spend one seventh of your *total* time playing H&H. I think any reasonable examination of the facts will give that this is simply far too much. The circuit of potential customers who would at that point have any sort of benefit of a subscription is -- without having checked -- probably not much more than a handful, and in most of their cases the benefit would probably not end up being more than a few hours per week needed extra, which clearly makes any sort of reasonable pricing difficult.

Xsolla is advancing, at least. Delay is not on our side of the equation.

With the exception of those times when you are on vacation, unemployed or have no life.

So what do I do when I fit in all these 3 parameters?

I got to only 7 hours left of gametime, and due to my addiction I decided that instead of waiting for xsolla to cooperate I just went out and bought a pre paid credit card to buy the subscription, just waiting for the credit to be confirmed by the card.

Maybe instead of gametime subscription players could have small benefits as well, like a small boost in the amount of xp they receive? Not a lot as to break the game balance but enough to make it an enjoyable bonus for those who purchase the subscriptions.

I got a better idea, in order to find a worthy middle ground between a validated account and a subscribed one, how about the following changes:

All players get 24h full acess to game.

Create new system in which the weekly gametime hours given to the players is replaced by a "Bonus LP and XP gain".

Free players get 7h per week of said bonus, validated players could get 14h of the bonus every week and subscribed players could get the bonus permanent for the duration of the subscription.

Im sure the player base would greatly increase with this changes, and players would still have a very nice and rewarding incentive to pay for the game, withount being too overpowered or pissing people off due to limited game time.

This is just a suggestion, but I believe it would greatly enhace the game.

[Russaria]

Do you suffer from an ACTUAL diagnosed mental illness like Multiple personalities or what.

Russaria, I get the impression that you want to have a conversation with me, but if you want that then please stop filling your every damn post with crude and base insults, because I am not going to read them if you do. One more post like that and you are out of here.

How the hell do you expect me to treat you well, formulate a serious response, or, indeed, even read, when you begin your posts like this?

it was the only serious question I could ask considering your statements, which were so far from the reality of everything that has went on it's not even funny. As to "reading". A paragraph is before a person's eyes, unless it's a page long the first line is not that far from the last. You wouldn't care whether you read it or not. Conversation? With you personally? To what end and to what possible result could such a thing like that be. THAT was indeed a question, a serious and shocked one, as for everything else. They are statements not questions. Considering what you 2 did to everyone involved, even "Close" ones, what possible outcome would anyone be aiming towards, it's been what now...a month? Anything you thought a mistake or felt bad about, or felt needed to be changed or compensated or re-evaluated or backtracked for reputation would have been done the 1st week. Treat who well? I've not seen you do that to anyone in 7 years. Now yes, I have seen you form "buddy" type repose with (usually) a mod circle or clique but after this fiasco towards everyone regardless of who they were...even those things were wiped clean and exposed as false. So such a thing would never cross my mind.

I do see you are trying some kind of dual-response, public persona type, back and forth attempts but I don't think anyone sees it for anything other than it is. Again, it wasn't a slam, it was a serious question considering what was done here and how, diametrically opposed to what you said in that post. Aside from an intentional joke (Which ok, I could believe I guess) I honestly couldn't think of another sincere explanation.

[jorb]

What have I "done" to anyone? Built a game and provided it for free?

[VelocityRaptor]

What have I "done" to anyone? Built a game and provided it for free?

No one is faulting you for it, people just expected it to be exactly like the worlds before it in terms of pay scheme. It's fine to ask people for money, just don't be surprised if you don't get a lot of money and the critical mass necessary to keep people involved is no longer there.

[ChrisWebb]

What have I "done" to anyone? Built a game and provided it for free?

Perhaps I could help him out. As I have to now, refrained in hopes there would be some fair resolution. I have resigned myself to knowing better now.
So I guess it no longer matters. So what has been done? well first...

1) OMG Climb down off the cross dude, a bunch of "free" "raid bait" probably needs the wood.

2) You built a 7 year alpha game almost exclusively supported by word of mouth and some of the most extreme loyalty I ever saw in a game
despite the forum atmosphere, the unbalance, the gangs, griefers and general problems. Only to then take what was mostly veterans who played for years
and had them wake up one morning, with not even a 1 day warning to "smile and take a picture 'cause their shit was now gone with the wind" behind a 15$ ticket (the price of 3 AAA titles on a Steam or GOG sale) and with a disclaimer that same said 7 year alpha, unsupported and now abandoned, aside from a server restart, would likewise be gone with the wind anytime and at your leisure as soon as you've gotten anyone willing to pay that, well, to pay it, when it should have been no more the 5$ with such a "overstated threat" and morally should have remained a free lead-in to your now P2P game. At least that is what any normal fair minded game company would have done. Which I digress would NOT be you and your "friend".

3) You then, knowing the mechanics and game play of same said 7 year alpha above, charge well beyond a AAA title subscription fee, that carries with it the past 7 years reputation of both attitude and loyalty (or lack there-of) towards your own playerbase which may have been questionable until they woke up that day but now is NOT. Also knowing that anyone who did not subscribe would never be able to compete or even make a marginal mediocre presence aside from what I've seen it called as "Raid bait" and "Griefer fodder" for your "paying players" is not exactly a game winning business strategy.

4) You now strut around from what I've read, playing the abused messiah toting the Christian cross across a blazing desert as you spout off how the abusive Haven and Hearth playerbase who did not fill your pockets with donations have now gotten what they deserved, to in exchange, give you what you think you deserve for your sacrificial "Coding" and divine inspired "Ideas" and their loyalty that didn't come with a paypal donation was meaningless and easily dismissed.

5) You also seem to forget that having it both ways is a fantasy and seems a bit immature or something worse. Presenting oneself as a selfless benevolent Indie developer, one who both deserves and draws out loyalty from a playerbase, while at the same time showing over 7 years just how untrue that was in both thought and deed NOW, just doesn't fly in the grown-up business world. You DID appear to elicit such loyalty, it is why a real game company offered you a chance, THEY saw that in the loyalty of your fanbase but most of us knew it wasn't "really" returned by you two. Then they saw the other side, like your "Fanbase" just did. And you know that thing they did once they saw it? Well there you go, and that's why you aren't near the sacrificial messiah you make yourself out to be now.

6) And finally, the "pity me" accusations that your fanbase had some problem wishing, wanting and willing to support your work with a fair and reasonable payment is ludicrous and everyone knows it. Everyone I know would have paid some fair token for the old abandoned Haven and even some fair price for the NEW one had the OLD ONE been treated fairly as well. But as you say, you got "Enough of what you wanted" to be satisfied currently, so f-off to everyone else right? Not exactly "Game Messiah" material now is it.

So, I don't know what all he thinks you did, but I'll take it as an open question for anyone, and that's a few things I KNOW you did and are doing.

[jorb]

It has not been my intention to present myself as a martyr, and I am in no way shape or form maintaining personal perfection. Perhaps you are right.

I can't win this argument, however, so I shall simply leave it be. You are entitled to your opinion.

[molenga]

So much butt-hurt in this thread all of a sudden.

Sure, the p2p system as it is now is not perfect, and could use some changes, but it is not that bad to charge for the game.

Shit, these 2 have been coding this game for 7 years now out of their own time and money, we have enjoyed playing the game for 7 years for free.

The thing is, free stuff can only go so far, in order for the game to grow and actually leave the permanent alpha stage one day it actually needs financial support.

If you think coding a game like this alone or with a friend is easy, then feel free to do so, I bet every gamer in the world has tought about it once or twice, but most lack both the skill and willpower to do so.

[Procne]

People talk about extremely loyal and involved playerbase and then use it as argument why there should no payment or why should it be lower. Like, what? 10$ a month suddenly beats this great "loyalty"?

I know some people from 1st world countries who were excited about playing new Haven, and were ready to commit several hours (5-9) a day to it, and who were gone after they heard they have to pay 10$ a month. That's when it struck me what kind of bottom feeders are here.

I agree that jorb and loftar did poor communication with the whole cash shop thing. And I can agree to some arguments about game being untested, bug ridden, poor customer service and still charging for the game. But it still makes me laugh when people say they would spend 8h a day in the game IF it was free. Like, people value their entertainment so low that 200h of playing the game is not worth working for an extra hour or 2 (again, speaking of 1st world countries)?

There are 2 kinds of people - those who reach out and get what they want, and those who whine about it being too hard.

[Russaria]

So much butt-hurt in this thread all of a sudden.

Sure, the p2p system as it is now is not perfect, and could use some changes, but it is not that bad to charge for the game.

Shit, these 2 have been coding this game for 7 years now out of their own time and money, we have enjoyed playing the game for 7 years for free.

Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:00 pm = who's "we" there bubba? We as in you? We as in US? "We" as in how many years have you played and partaken of their oh so generous work? Hold on let me look a word up on google...let's see...S-H-I-L-L

OHHHH there it is.

And that's goes double for the above poster with a non sense rant about what? Starving in a 3rd world country for a pc game and that if you wouldn't pay an outrageously OP price for it you are a bottom feeder. Really. Dude, I may love cheesecake too, but if the one on the shelf costs 24.99 and the jello no-bake in the box is almost as good but costs 2.49 Guess which one I have to choose, not because I'm cheap, but because I'm a sane person with a 8 year old son to take care of and know the difference between hedonistic self gratification and/or a slam out grift!!! another word you can look up if it flies over your head. You people keep making this about money alone, as opposed to the behavior as well.