On Raiders and The New Mechanic

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

make it hard to trade... but I do not want to have to walk all the way forward and walk all the way back again. In week days with work/school we have limited free time

This to me is an incentive for people to form dedicated trading groups that trade with whoever they come across. This is a + for the game, not a minus.

Yes, I see what you say, you think it can be fun, and a + for the game. I would agree with you if we all could play all day long in the hours of our choise, which I would love if it could happen but I dont see it coming.

What Im saying is if we need to: work/school + travel + eat + bath + etc. on week days and can not play more than 1:30/2:00 hours a day or even less (which is my case), and we live all over the world with very different hours making it hard to be logged at same time frames, and now we will have players with clock ticking because they dont pay a sub or whatever and dont want to use their free time just walking back a risky road they allready know, we will not be able to be benefited from this +, so it can turn out to be a burden.

Anyway whoever choses to go and come back walking will still be free to do so, and I guess some can choose to be a trader and enjoy making this organized trips from village to village for others that do not have the time (like me). I would love to pay a cut of my profit for someone doing this work for me and also be happy to make ingame payment for a growing map and info on politicall news & new settlements. It can be a win win situation.


Edit: I forgot, I think we will not be able to travel to HF in wagons, as it was in W7, so traders might be forced to not use HF travel anyway. To organize a long walk will be costly and maybe hard to justify for one chest, so I think wagons is the way to go.

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Again - This is why you have people who are dedicated traders, and those they visit to trade.

You keep saying "But so many of us have (Real Life) to deal with."

Yes, I understand, I'm a business owner, I have to work long hours on that. I probably wouldn't be able to be a trader as a result. But there are those who could make the long dangerous trek across the hearthland and transport them between distant villages. That's a playstyle that's available to them.

Your playstyle may be staying close to home generating items to trade with these people for things you don't have yet, need, or want to replace.

[Cranny]

Again - This is why you have people who are dedicated traders, and those they visit to trade.

You keep saying "But so many of us have (Real Life) to deal with."

Yes, I understand, I'm a business owner, I have to work long hours on that. I probably wouldn't be able to be a trader as a result. But there are those who could make the long dangerous trek across the hearthland and transport them between distant villages. That's a playstyle that's available to them.

Your playstyle may be staying close to home generating items to trade with these people for things you don't have yet, need, or want to replace.

Yeah, we both seem to insist.
Im afraid that with this argument HF tele back is taken out of the game, as it seems we are on this trend of taking out teles. And it would be for getting something nice but that can be done anyway as it is now, and that would kill me and the ones that play like me.


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[burgingham]

You just wan tto impose unnecessary limitations on players that serve no good reason. Why? You hate fun and good mechanics?

It does not only hurt trading, it also pretty much gets rid of huntin or exploration trips. So basically you would just sit at home and do nothing.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

You just wan tto impose unnecessary limitations on players that serve no good reason. Why? You hate fun and good mechanics?

It does not only hurt trading, it also pretty much gets rid of huntin or exploration trips. So basically you would just sit at home and do nothing.

No, it doesn't get rid of hunting or exploration trips, it makes them part of a trek that involves planning and the use of lean-to's and being away from home and perhaps in danger until you're able to return to your stronghold. Your arguments are hyperbolic, you don't bring any solid evidence to the table, you just assume the worst case scenario.

Both of these things are fun and good mechanics. Your stronghold should be where you feel safe, it shouldn't be the only place you are, and safety shouldn't be a few second wait away, and your back in your home from half-way around the world.

[spectacle]

You just wan tto impose unnecessary limitations on players that serve no good reason. Why? You hate fun and good mechanics?

It does not only hurt trading, it also pretty much gets rid of huntin or exploration trips. So basically you would just sit at home and do nothing.

No, it doesn't get rid of hunting or exploration trips, it makes them part of a trek that involves planning and the use of lean-to's and being away from home and perhaps in danger until you're able to return to your stronghold.

No it doesn't, it will just make all trips short since you'll return home as soon as your inventory is full. Why the fuck would you build a lean-to to store stuff you won't be able to bring home anyway? Do you even play the game or do you just dream about it?

The problem with raiders escaping back to their hearth while carrying tons of loot could be solved by taking hearth-teleportation take a lot longer when you're tresspassing, perhaps several minutes. So a raider would either have to carry his chest of loot out of the settlement, or he'd need to chase off the defenders so they don't bother him while he waits for the teleport timer. In either case the defenders would have a chance to attack the raider without having to be fast clickers, and regular players who just want to move goods in bulk back to their base are not affected.

[WarpedWiseMan]

You just wan tto impose unnecessary limitations on players that serve no good reason. Why? You hate fun and good mechanics?

It does not only hurt trading, it also pretty much gets rid of huntin or exploration trips. So basically you would just sit at home and do nothing.

No, it doesn't get rid of hunting or exploration trips, it makes them part of a trek that involves planning and the use of lean-to's and being away from home and perhaps in danger until you're able to return to your stronghold. Your arguments are hyperbolic, you don't bring any solid evidence to the table, you just assume the worst case scenario.

Both of these things are fun and good mechanics. Your stronghold should be where you feel safe, it shouldn't be the only place you are, and safety shouldn't be a few second wait away, and your back in your home from half-way around the world.

You are nuts and I'd suggest you get a job or a date. Tedium is not fun, nor should it be a game mechanic.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

You are nuts and I'd suggest you get a job or a date. Tedium is not fun, nor should it be a game mechanic.

*sighs* I'm engaged to a wonderful woman who plays this game with me. I run my own business and make decent money. Your assumptions are invalid. Can we avoid the ad hominem arguments and stay on topic please?

In response to the lean-to thing.. You would store them there while you slept to protect them so you could make the return trip the next day.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

regular players who just want to move goods in bulk back to their base are not affected.

This is what roads, wagons, carts, boats, and merchant robes are for. What you want is to be able to return with your spoils without the threat of being attacked. I can respect this desire, as I'm not a raider myself, but a foraging explorer. But the fact is it is also somewhat disappointing that there's no threat when returning with my hard gotten gains, one instant I'm miles from home, perhaps lost, the next...

I'm back in my camp.

Another approach to this, rather than doing ad hominem statements, is to discuss alternatives.

Different Approach #1
Teleportation is always limited by travel weariness (While not having a stupidly overpowered solution for the same like wine and beer). Travel weariness being calculated by psyche, how much you're carrying (A full boat is a long delay to launch), and time. Limit the number of times you can hearth home in a given frame of time, maybe even make it once in a several hour period.

This partially solves the 'hearthing across the world' issue by limiting how far they can go (You have to at least travel a ways towards your home before you can hearth back to it, giving pursuers a chance to catch up to them), and helps resolve the raiding issue as a result. They can still hearth home, but part of that trip needs to be made 'on foot', until they're close enough.

(I chose psyche rather than agility as it seems to be one of the hardest stats to build, and the most useless to the general traveler. Agility is a necessary part of a combat build, and therefor imposes no additional difficulty to those wishing to have the ability to hearth across long distances).

Different Approach #2
A craftable item made using beautiful dreams and "Ash of the Hearth Fire" that permits transportation over a distance determined by its quality. This item is only usable within 48 hours of it being constructed, and is subject to the same penalties and issues mentioned above. No one can have more than one of these attuned to themselves at any time, and ash will not begin regenerating until it's used.

To construct:
1 - The character must have x # of dreams in their inventory, ash of the hearth fire, and a few other ingredients that are used to determine quality of the end result in conjunction with psyche and survival.

2 - Ash of the Hearth Fire is not collected, the item must be crafted by the characters hearth fire when hearth ash is present. (Hearth ash only generates at a set rate, and no more than one ash can exist in the fire at any given time, and cannot be harvested directly)

A Different Different Approach

Finally -
Everyone gets the opportunity to vampf on home based on a slowly regenerating travel weariness in conjunction with the stats and conditions mentioned in approach #1.

However, #2 is also available, and everyone can have one of these. In this instance, the hearth fire ash would be harvest able, and someone with sufficient skills and knowledge of Hearth Magic could create this item for you.

Now you have two options to get home, one of them dependent on your stats, one on someone elses, and both of them eliminate the freestyle hearthing with tons of loot that's been known for 7 worlds now.

[spectacle]

regular players who just want to move goods in bulk back to their base are not affected.

This is what roads, wagons, carts, boats, and merchant robes are for. What you want is to be able to return with your spoils without the threat of being attacked. I can respect this desire, as I'm not a raider myself, but a foraging explorer.

Read my entire post FFS.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

The problem with raiders escaping back to their hearth while carrying tons of loot could be solved by taking hearth-teleportation take a lot longer when you're tresspassing, perhaps several minutes. So a raider would either have to carry his chest of loot out of the settlement, or he'd need to chase off the defenders so they don't bother him while he waits for the teleport timer. In either case the defenders would have a chance to attack the raider without having to be fast clickers, and regular players who just want to move goods in bulk back to their base are not affected.

If you're referring to the "few minutes" part, that is so laughable as to scarcely be worth noting.

The trip of several hours should not be reduced to a few minutes for the raiders convenience. (Or the foragers/hunters/explorers for that matter)

There was no viable solution offered here that didn't make a mockery of distance.