The metal industry feels like this cookie clicker game

[Sevenless]

Ahh I've only tried Ochre, it's good to know there's better though if that's confirmed.

Yes, different ores all have different smelt rates. Amusingly Ochre is still better than Heavy Earth even. But the hardness increases roughly with bar output I'm guessing. That's why no one's really talking about having better ores in mined deposits yet: No one has the STR to mine them really.

[Kaios]

Yes, different ores all have different smelt rates. Amusingly Ochre is still better than Heavy Earth even. But the hardness increases roughly with bar output I'm guessing. That's why no one's really talking about having better ores in mined deposits yet: No one has the STR to mine them really.

Since you brought up the strength requirements here I just wanted to mention that this is also another rather large barrier to underground mining. It seems to me everything in mining works the opposite of how it should be, surface ores are few and far between even though their output for metal is not all that great other than perhaps bloodstone which seems to be the best choice for bars per load at the moment.

Meanwhile, ores obtained from underground ALSO have quite the shitty metal output and a bunch more obstacles in place compared to surface ores. You need to be able to survive or avoid the bats, you need to have decent strength and while this isn't a requirement for the lower strength walls, higher strength walls most certainly require the use of a pick, bear cape and talisman and even then you STILL may not be able to mine many walls depending on the level of your strength. As an example, there is no way to detect how hard a wall is when you are prospecting for ore so let's say you spend the time and expensive resources on building a minehole, you complete it and then you can't even mine the walls you just gained access to because you need 100+ strength or possibly even more. And that's just the first underground level.

[Sevenless]

Since you brought up the strength requirements here I just wanted to mention that this is also another rather large barrier to underground mining. It seems to me everything in mining works the opposite of how it should be, surface ores are few and far between even though their output for metal is not all that great other than perhaps bloodstone which seems to be the best choice for bars per load at the moment.

Meanwhile, ores obtained from underground ALSO have quite the shitty metal output and a bunch more obstacles in place compared to surface ores. You need to be able to survive or avoid the bats, you need to have decent strength and while this isn't a requirement for the lower strength walls, higher strength walls most certainly require the use of a pick, bear cape and talisman and even then you STILL may not be able to mine many walls depending on the level of your strength. As an example, there is no way to detect how hard a wall is when you are prospecting for ore so let's say you spend the time and expensive resources on building a minehole, you complete it and then you can't even mine the walls you just gained access to because you need 100+ strength or possibly even more. And that's just the first underground level.

I don't see what the problem with those points personally:

The higher bar output surface ores are definitely out of whack effort per output wise, but those other mining issues have always been true in legacy. You never knew the hardness back then either, albeit the hardness was purely based on random nodes in that time. Bats are no longer threatening since crawling seems to be 100% safe when passing by them now. Before the bat nerf, yes mining was ultra broken in that sense.

I definitely agree that the soft ores are a little too punishing, especially Heavy Earth. Ochre is pretty darn stingy, HE is sadistic. When you pile this onto a massively increased metal cost for supports I definitely agree that the system is putting you on a ratwheel in terms of progress a little too much. As a solo player, it took me 4-5 days to accumulate the metal for a anvil/hammer/pick combo. That's a little stupid.

All in all, I think a cheapened support cost and a buff to the lowest tier of iron ores is probably all that's required to fix this system.

[Kaios]

You never knew the hardness back then either, albeit the hardness was purely based on random nodes in that time.

Well I don't know how they have done the formula to determine this now but in my opinion one should be capable of mining any wall on the first underground level without having to completely fuck over someone's FEPs by making them pump strength only. Especially with how the hunger system works now.

[Sevenless]

You never knew the hardness back then either, albeit the hardness was purely based on random nodes in that time.

Well I don't know how they have done the formula to determine this now but in my opinion one should be capable of mining any wall on the first underground level without having to completely fuck over someone's FEPs by making them pump strength only.

That was true in legacy start of world though. Hardness nodes would pop up that you couldn't mine without 50-100 str pretty regularly.

Current system is based off rock type + varience nodes. So every hard spot you can't mine is a different rock most likely. And entirely possible it contains better iron nodes.

[Kaios]

That was true in legacy start of world though. Hardness nodes would pop up that you couldn't mine without 50-100 str pretty regularly.

Current system is based off rock type + varience nodes. So every hard spot you can't mine is a different rock most likely. And entirely possible it contains better iron nodes.

who cares about legacy haven this is the new haven and I feel the strength requirements on the first underground level are too high, I'm sure there are several levels further down I can go to for better quality later on but right now I am just looking to mine in bulk like most other people I imagine.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

Two things I could see helping the smelter:
1 - Have it automatically draw from adjacent coal stock-piles.
2 - Have the ability to control+right-click it with a piece of coal and have it automatically draw coal from an adjacent stockpile.
3 - If it can only hold twelve, give us an inventory that holds twelve spaces, or can be filled like old-style build sites from our inventory with the scroll-wheel.

[venatorvenator]

Also firebrands take wayyyy to long and the mechanic also does not feel very fun. For me lighting something is always an inner struggle because it is just time that is wasted, where nothing really happens and that i would have liked to have spend actually playing the game. I see that you want to go for the whole realismus thing and i agree that its kinda cool but in some situations its maybe just better to give up a little realism for more smooth/fun gameplay? Also if you are honest a more realistic situation and maybe something that would resolve the issue would be if you could light firebrands from burning/hot places and if firebrands would be a littlebit more stable so you can place them in your inventory or equip them maybe for a minute.

The use of fire is a thematic focal point of the game's mythos

Fire must be earned

Anyway I think it's too early to be complaining about this. Who knows, maybe ores taken from nodes with higher hardness will have better metal rates, and making metal more accessible now will unbalance the late game.

[ewlol]

I think a lot of folks in this thread are trying to compare Legacy Haven to what we have now.

Maybe jorb and loftar don't want us mass producing iron like we did in previous worlds. I don't mind metal being a tedious and therefore more precious resource.

[Ganeshi]

Slightly older thread but related idea so adding here rather than making a whole new one.

Perhaps we could get some kind of flux mineral (limestone) that can be added to the smelter that would increase the % chance to get a bar. It would be a 1 to 1 ratio (1 flux/1 ore) so you would basically half the number of "chances" to get a bar, but each chance would be higher. It would also mean more smelter runs, which would eat up more of the stockpiled coal.

Whether the flux would affect quality levels...meh I'd lean toward no.