Allow villages to revoke pclaims without the time check

[r0ck4ev3r]

Time check to revoke pclaim's should be villa's age (or an average age of all expansions), NOT the newly expanded flag's age.

[VDZ]

Time check to revoke pclaim's should be villa's age (or an average age of all expansions), NOT the newly expanded flag's age.

That could lead to

I thought the overlap mechanic worked based on how long the Pclaim had been overlapped.

Tbh same, and it would make more sense to be this way (so you can't just place vc asap and then tendril your way around all the continent revoking claims). But i might be wrong.

It would be a really shitty experience to log in to suddenly find my stuff declaimed (and probably bashed without counting as a crime; wrecking ball would be allowed if vclaimed with no opposing pclaim) by a village that was still a 'safe' distance away a couple days ago.

[bmjclark]

Thanks for doing the testing. Gonna spitball my thoughts here: Still not comfortable with the instant declaim, I've seen Vidol griefing done in the past and this would be a much more effective version of it.

Thought A) Would "pclaims can't be extended into your village" and just claiming a Vbanner or two extra around your village be enough? Would let you establish a protective buffer ahead of time.

Thought B) is the issue with the current system is the duration of overlap required? Would changing that % required work for this situation?

For what it's worth, instant declaiming was a thing through all of legacy and didn't really cause major issues and that was with instant banner dry times.

You already can't extend pclaims into your village unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. I think realistically if we increased the minimum distance that a pclaim can be from a village to 100 tiles (to match what vclaims are) or even higher it'd at least be better. Currently a pclaim can be placed with a min distance of 5 from another claim which is dumb.

As it is, I could build a claim 300 tiles away from your village and then extend it to your vclaim after the 8 hour wait time and unless you have bots patrolling 3 minimaps around you if every direction or get absurdly lucky and catch the initial pclaim while walking around on foot, there's nothing you can do about it. There's no wait time on extending the pclaim so you have exactly 8 hours to catch it, hopefully you aren't sleeping. I would now have blocked any expansion in a direction from you and would also have a potential future siege camp that you could never destroy unless you spend gold and break the peace and also camp a ram for 24 hours. At 300 tiles away, if you wanted to declaim my pclaim, it would take you 160 hours to expand to my pclaim with banners (30 tiles in a given direction per 16 hours). After you get there, you'd now need to wait 1440 hours (or 60 days) to declaim my pclaim and that's assuming you started extending instantly when you saw the pclaim and never missed any time.

[Sevenless]

For what it's worth, instant declaiming was a thing through all of legacy and didn't really cause major issues and that was with instant banner dry times.

You already can't extend pclaims into your village unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. I think realistically if we increased the minimum distance that a pclaim can be from a village to 100 tiles (to match what vclaims are) or even higher it'd at least be better. Currently a pclaim can be placed with a min distance of 5 from another claim which is dumb.

As it is, I could build a claim 300 tiles away from your village and then extend it to your vclaim after the 8 hour wait time and unless you have bots patrolling 3 minimaps around you if every direction or get absurdly lucky and catch the initial pclaim while walking around on foot, there's nothing you can do about it. There's no wait time on extending the pclaim so you have exactly 8 hours to catch it, hopefully you aren't sleeping. I would now have blocked any expansion in a direction from you and would also have a potential future siege camp that you could never destroy unless you spend gold and break the peace and also camp a ram for 24 hours. At 300 tiles away, if you wanted to declaim my pclaim, it would take you 160 hours to expand to my pclaim with banners (30 tiles in a given direction per 16 hours). After you get there, you'd now need to wait 1440 hours (or 60 days) to declaim my pclaim and that's assuming you started extending instantly when you saw the pclaim and never missed any time.

>For what it's worth, instant declaiming was a thing through all of legacy and didn't really cause major issues and that was with instant banner dry times.

This is where I remember dummy idols being dropped to declaim people. Wasn't rampant probably, but it was used in the area I lived 2-3 times by our local bully pvp village for shiggles at the very least.

>You already can't extend pclaims into your village unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying

I wasn't sure on this point. I guess my point was "can't you Vbanner out X tiles and use the Vclaim to stop ram palisades?". Seems doable at least. But the second part is:

>have a potential future siege camp

I don't really see how you can ever stop safe pally style siege camps though. Dropping safe palies to fuck with people within 10 minimaps will almost always succeed (unless as you point out you have a wide botnet watching for it), and you don't really need it within sight of the walls for it to be effective at acting as a retreat point.


Thanks for the explanations, appreciated. I'm not convinced insta declaim would actually solve your problem, but only push it out a minimap or two which really doesn't help (assuming you're Vbannering outside your village far enough to block rams/catas from being placed that near).

As someone who had to deal with safe pally shenanigans this world where they did exactly that, it's a pain in the ass for sure. Thankfully our harassers weren't dedicated enough to keep rebuilding it after we destroyed it 4 times.

Edit: Haven't double checked, assuming rams still have a relatively limited rolling distance before they need repairs.

[bmjclark]

I don't really see how you can ever stop safe pally style siege camps though. Dropping safe palies to fuck with people within 10 minimaps will almost always succeed (unless as you point out you have a wide botnet watching for it), and you don't really need it within sight of the walls for it to be effective at acting as a retreat point.

Kind of. The thing is that right now, the pclaims take a month to get to their full soak. The pclaim siege camp that got dropped at our village this world was actually a few days old when we found it but it still allowed us to siege it in 4-5 hours instead of the normal 24. If the same thing had of happened this world, we would have had to hope there's a challenge window to break the peace ongoing, if so, break the peace and then camp a ram for 24 hours all to get rid of a claim that someone snuck in. Yes you can stop it by extending far in all directions and that's exactly what my group will do this world but most players aren't going to know to do that until they get screwed over.

[Sevenless]

Yes you can stop it by extending far in all directions and that's exactly what my group will do this world but most players aren't going to know to do that until they get screwed over.

Isn't that the truth.

I think this is the crux of the matter though: Insta declaiming is a bandaid to the new siege system being really hamfisted in dealing with this. I would rather fix the "ramming a fresh claim needs to happen sometimes" issue than bandaid over it by changing declaim mechanics (that said I think 90% is too much).

But it needs to somehow get around thingpeace. I'm really not sure about the best way to do that.

[vatas]

Only real limiter to the Legacy "Revoke the Privilege!" being used offensively was the fact that using it required spending Village's Authority pool, and the cost scaled from Pclaim size.

I only have faint memories but there might even have been some sort of non-linearity to the cost formula that made pclaims above certain size impossible to revoke. Also making your pclaim bigger was more viable in Legacy since there was no Presence upkeep.

[Dawidio123]

I only have faint memories but there might even have been some sort of non-linearity to the cost formula that made pclaims above certain size impossible to revoke.

Ye i pretty much played in a small-ish groups during legacy (Except joining some retarded satelite Erathia which was just as good as Whatever Bay), but i do recall having issues with revoking someone's claim due to sheer amount of authority it required, like i'd need to spam out chieftain's idols.