Cleaning up permadeath: Edgecases that feel wrong

[Jenno]

Imagine creating an MMO and getting trolled by a bunch of forum warriors who hate your game (for over ten years).

[Audiosmurf]

Imagine creating an MMO and getting trolled by a bunch of forum warriors who hate your game (for over ten years).

LITERALLY

[Sevenless]

Coping to those players who come here not looking for a harsh survival game is likely in the wrong place imo.

Don't feed the trolls and all that but: Been playing longer than you, legacy permadeath sucked. Reduction of permadeath hasn't ruined anything despite people like you doomsaying to the high heavens. If anything the game has more players than ever.

So yeah I'm going with Jenno on this one.

[Rebs]

Coping to those players who come here not looking for a harsh survival game is likely in the wrong place imo.

Don't feed the trolls and all that but: Been playing longer than you, legacy permadeath sucked. Reduction of permadeath hasn't ruined anything despite people like you doomsaying to the high heavens. If anything the game has more players than ever.

So yeah I'm going with Jenno on this one.

yeah.. I be trolling. Legacy was dope and and my countless permadeath I had never stopped me from playing. As I said I a masochist, I played Legacy worlds a lot longer then Hafens ones, mostly due to the fact that I never got far into the content before I got murdered by a ranger shooting through palisade walls. But I enjoyed it, every death was like a little "I can do better next time".

I very much enjoyed watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9gW0RxqCJY, which I guess shows that even now new players still find ways of dying.

realised this is all off topic. o/

[MightySheep]

Rebs it's not even like I disagree with u but its almost never the case that u die in a fun intended way . I want to return to that shit ur talking about where u die and like ah shit ima play better next time

Retarded shit like pepper just robs u of a fun death if anything I'm all for more scary hardcore creatures and things but die to misclick shallow water is zzzz

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Imagine creating an MMO and getting trolled by a bunch of forum warriors who hate your game (for over ten years).

Post of the decade, tbh.

[Nightdawg]

[Händler]

How do you do this without making 100 newbies die per 1 fighter?

I think they should decide if they want to be stardew valley online or a high risk PVP game and stick to it. I'm not rly happy with how low risk everything feels, and I can't imagine facebook moms would be happy with any interaction they have with me regardless of how much jorbtar softens the blow.

The only note I have on that: PvPers in a way act as a game mechanic for PvEers. It's a very intelligent hostile force that gives the world a sense of danger, and a reason to meet other players to play with for protection. The counterpoint being that PvEers are a form of prey for the PvP types to enjoy attacking, which I'll agree isn't exactly a fun thing to be.

The difference that you stated there is in big parts, if not entirely, reliant on how justified the encounter with such a predator will be perceived.
Which, in turn, relies on how much in control of the situation that lead to the death I can see myself having had.

If I die because of something that I could not have done anything against, such as drowning because of an error or because of something - in your words -unintuitive, I will call bs because that's what it is.

Now here comes the serious design problem with H & H: It's an extremely untrustworthy game. Which is why nobody with a brain will invest more than their lunch money into it.
Meaning, the game is a discovery experience that always keeps transparency low, it's rather unstable, simultaneously it supports the modding of its client which creates further gaps between players and loopholes.
Now one of these by itself would not be much of an issue, butif you take all of these into account in combination, for all intents and purposes the game creates a "rigged casino game" vibe, without even including any such gambling mechanics for the most part. I have my serious doubts if the top pvp mayhem group in this game is not quite literally just the dev wanting to let off steam in his self-hosted little virtual hunting ground and I am certainly not the only one who has come to such conclusion.

If I see a dev taking an open stance on botting I have to ask myself why would they do that.
And when I see many of the dynamics in the game between the few people that play it, and I see exploits left and right, it becomes clear that being open to botting makes for a very good excuse for reasonable deniability if the top hunter in the game is the dev himself, god mode style.
If this was not the case, then you simply have a game full of people on completely different standing depending on the client they use. Did I sign up for a hackathon or to play a game?
The person that naively starts the game Vanilla or over Steam will get a bum burn faster than they can get their sprucecap crafted, and I'm not talking about pepper.
On the other end of the spectrum you have automation that goes, at times, beyond the benefits that I could get from quite literally starting to intercept and edit packages.
In HnH if I invest cash - but time alone is also bad enough - I'll know there is nothing I can do as regular player to seriously compete because it's a rigged game from the get-go.

This is also why every year that we start haven, we only ever start once the game world is already at the end of its life cycle and the aristocrat class (cheaters) are gone.



I would likely lose all interest in Haven if it did not have permadeath because the high stakes are what make it exciting and distinguish it. And in most regards I would be no different from a hermit in most situations of most worlds because I don't run around with a group of ppl with 20 flasks and battlegear at the ready. When they made it increasingly difficult to access even inactive bases, we did avoid the game for some time because of it, since the game seemed pointless from there on. I wouldn't even mind if active walls were bashable again within a matter of seconds. But if I see a group with people of "titan stats" and exploits in their pockets claiming the world, I don't even have to waste my time.
It's a haven alright, a botter haven.

[Frogg]

Bro bumping old threads with chatGPT slop.

[Audiosmurf]

Are you actually unable to discern between AI and human? Nice.