Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby Zepar72 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:24 pm

Also to everyone that thinks a few bits of dust means you have to abandon your supportless mining operation, this is what i got after mining for a prospected ore. 1 and 2 mean ammounts of dust.
Attachments
2019-02-11_05.35.54.758(1).jpg
dust, dust everywhere
2019-02-11_05.35.54.758(1).jpg (28.74 KiB) Viewed 963 times
Zepar72
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:36 am

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby Zepar72 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:27 pm

And this is after figuring things out. Whole thing was 100% safe, i didn't mine randomly even once.
It just takes more effort and time, and you have to abandon a few tiles of ore. That's all there is to supportless mining.
Attachments
2019-02-11_16.53.42.298(1).jpg
no more dust
2019-02-11_16.53.42.298(1).jpg (43.35 KiB) Viewed 963 times
Zepar72
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:36 am

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby Kaios » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:29 pm

Zepar72 wrote:I still think the problem lies in players not understanding the new mechanics. You're NOT supposed to mine 100% of the ore if there are cave-ins. You're all used to that and kinda refuse to accept the changes . . .
If the new system stays (even if they buff supports, which would be understandable), you'll still HAVE to minesweep. Supports are just for helping you deal with the cave-in walls, to make shortcuts, or to build bigger open spaces, for a metal cost.
It's really simple to understand you no longer can mindlessly mark 10x10 ore vein for mining and go watch a movie .. .

Also, if you minesweep correctly around a cave-in, the piece of stone (ore) you leave becomes the 1x1 support for tiles around it. That's called natural support, it helps you see if other tiles are safe to mine around it.


That’s all fine to me actually I don’t really care about mining that 1 tile of iron ochre and if it’s something better such as gold I will build a support for it but the desire to lower the overall amount of ore available on the map and also limiting the capability of mining that ore in its entirety without significant cost or time consumption aren’t exactly two ideals that line up well together.

If caved in tiles created further support for surrounding tiles it might not be so bad but it would appear that is not the case as no matter how many caved in walls litter your area the cave-in tiles never stop being such.
User avatar
Kaios
 
Posts: 9168
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby Zepar72 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Kaios wrote:
Zepar72 wrote:I still think the problem lies in players not understanding the new mechanics. You're NOT supposed to mine 100% of the ore if there are cave-ins. You're all used to that and kinda refuse to accept the changes . . .
If the new system stays (even if they buff supports, which would be understandable), you'll still HAVE to minesweep. Supports are just for helping you deal with the cave-in walls, to make shortcuts, or to build bigger open spaces, for a metal cost.
It's really simple to understand you no longer can mindlessly mark 10x10 ore vein for mining and go watch a movie .. .

Also, if you minesweep correctly around a cave-in, the piece of stone (ore) you leave becomes the 1x1 support for tiles around it. That's called natural support, it helps you see if other tiles are safe to mine around it.


That’s all fine to me actually I don’t really care about mining that 1 tile of iron ochre and if it’s something better such as gold I will build a support for it but the desire to lower the overall amount of ore available on the map and also limiting the capability of mining that ore in its entirety without significant cost or time consumption aren’t exactly two ideals that line up well together.

If caved in tiles created further support for surrounding tiles it might not be so bad but it would appear that is not the case as no matter how many caved in walls litter your area the cave-in tiles never stop being such.


Yea, i didn't mean it like that. It's just when a cave-in tile is surrounded by 0,01 dusts all around, it becomes a natural support on it's own, protecting area around it (by giving you info that there are no more cave-ins), i don't mean they protect you from actually mining futher cave-in on your own accord. Kinda like one the screenshots i send.
Zepar72
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:36 am

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby Kaios » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:10 pm

Zepar72 wrote:Yea, i didn't mean it like that. It's just when a cave-in tile is surrounded by 0,01 dusts all around, it becomes a natural support on it's own, protecting area around it (by giving you info that there are no more cave-ins), i don't mean they protect you from actually mining futher cave-in on your own accord. Kinda like one the screenshots i send.


I think you’re missing the point though about how players would previously explore tunnels and mine to other caves/nodes which is made to be difficult or impossible due to these changes despite nothing actually being changed in relation to what is underground. For example lets say I do manage to finally tunnel over to a big, open cavern well that’s great except the chances of something useful actually being contained in that cavern are so incredibly low based on prior experience.This could either be local resources or a clay/water node but usually a majority of underground locations ends up being totally useless and I highly doubt that has changed.

Underground exploration goes beyond the need for just ore but the amount of ore in the world could in fact be limited through other methods that don’t give the player a tumor.
User avatar
Kaios
 
Posts: 9168
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby Vigilance » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:37 pm

loving the life of ignoring supports as a feature tbh, my mines look like someone had a stroke and started going in random lines and squiggles and started paving randomly
Image
"Tosak gets the guys undressed faster than their girlfriends can." -NaoWhut
http://i.imgur.com/5cQiL.png http://i.imgur.com/lYyAA.png
User avatar
Vigilance
 
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: fog of irrelevancy

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby RickyRio » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:00 am

All this talk of mining and minesweeper reminded me of this gem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHY8NKj3RKs
RickyRio
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby Machenoid » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:32 pm

jorb wrote:Still here.

Would you be willing to make mine sweeper easier by providing additional warning if the player was willing to spend resources to do it? (with a chance to provide no warning anyways)
Or even just completely redoing the system to something more structured and less free-form?
The Dwarf is making a plaintive gesture. He doesn't really care about anything any more.
User avatar
Machenoid
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:12 pm

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby Lojka » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:57 pm

I like current system. it's not that hard really
User avatar
Lojka
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:02 am

Re: Mine Support Changes are Awful.

Postby jock » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:12 pm

Lojka wrote:I like current system. it's not that hard really


The system hasn't changed. Just mine supports are USELESS. Repairing them is expensive and pointless as they break to easy.

Revert.
jock
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:27 am

PreviousNext

Return to Critique & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 112 guests