Remove Cheese

[srt66]

Or set it to be a spice. Scattered on food. It's like pepper, truffles.

How do you eat cheese?

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Haven and Hearth is like a 24/7 theme park, so removing tedious tasks (those not dependent on time) is a difficult issue.

To be fair, my title/subject of this thread was deliberately facetious.
I don't actually want cheese removed.

But I do think greatly limiting its consumption (like Pepper with bum burn) is necessary. It is not hyperbole to say that cheese has trashed the market for food in the lategame of Haven. People were trying to sell full *trays* of multiple slices of cheese at Whatever Bay for a single lead coin, which is our lowest denomination of currency. That obviously demonstrates that one of the best foods in the game is so easily mass produced/botted that it literally couldn't be sold for low enough price.

There are people that more or less off-line progress entirely by doing nothing but log in to eat cheese to develop their PvP characters.

This would be less of an issue with 3 month wipes. But with longer wipes of 1+ years, it more or less devalues "regular player" for 3/4ths or more of the wipe cycle.

[DonVelD]

to remove cheese just wash under ur 4skin 4head

[Robben_DuMarsch]

yes

[SnuggleSnail]

Snail has claimed he used to play without bots, but started botting the process of replacing old racks with new ones.

It wasn't the thing that just encouraged me to start botting, it's what caused me to learn how to code.

I realize retard is only posting inane shit in response to DonVelD, but it really does seem like all of the particularly bad anti-botting measures came about this way. Some idiot with no experience in automation or development waking up one morning and deciding this one simple trick can fix everything when in reality it's a 3 line fix or just an entire script rewrite to something with similar complexity. Jorbtar even probably realize they're meaningless, but have proven time and again they cave to like 6 people from the same village PMing them while pretending they represent a wider majority.

>"there's mining bots jorb fixxxx itttt by making boulders spawn"
>regular users get absolutely fucked
>literally 3 or less uncomplicated to fix with even shitty public APIs, maybe 30-60 seconds of work for a slow programmer
>doesn't get reverted for like 2 or 3 years

Also, the only time when regular hermits had attributes on par with faction tryhards during the time I played was world 10 when cheese was the entire meta. Prolly helped that I played towards the end, but it's nearly empirical evidence the feasting system not being overly complicated and maybe even being FUN has more impact than botting. That world had SO MUCH bad going for it that should've caused worse disparity, pepper being retarded, fucky qualities, drinks being annoying - but it turns out if you can just tell the hermits "make cheese & wine, ignore everything else" they keep up way better in a harsher environment than they do now with 30 different punishing arcane systems supposedly there to help them.

Anyway, make things more complicated and punishing to counter bots!!!

[terechgracz]

yes bots only can be discouraged by moderation

[vatas]

yes bots only can be discouraged by moderation

Activision has deemed that paying GMs is a waste of money. Although in World of Warcraft, every bot has to pay a monthly subscription fee. In Haven, paying only gives bonus inventory/stat gain. Lot of bots can be extremely useful without any of them (scout or sentry bot hooked to DIscord that alarms when it sees another player, for example) and it is not like paid bonuses are mandatory to reach good stats, especially when we're talking in the context of factionboi / try hard botter. Also, there's an option to spend Game Time Tokens, something that lot of players allegedly have hoarded massive amounts over the years.

Anyway, my point is: if even a multi-billion dollar company finds it more convenient/profitable to ignore botting than to fix it, what hope does Jorbtar have? Also, this was the paradigm BEFORE ChatGPT came out.

[Dawidio123]

it is not like paid bonuses are mandatory to reach good stats

I agree with everything else but this, if you want to reach good stats in a reasonable timeframe paid bonuses are absolutely mandatory. 50% fep increase is like having your hunger multiplier be at 1.5x of everyone else, meaning effectively your softcap for stats is roughly ~30-40% (doesn't EXACTLY translate into 50% bcs you eat more so your hunger drops, fep don't overflow, etc.) higher compared to f2p, when someone one taps a 100 fep at 100 stat you can do the same at 150. Spending money on premium + verification is literally time efficient when considering things like convenience.

I wouldn't mind hafen being pay 2 play with ability to get ingame tokens through trade (for me it basically is, i wouldn't play without premium) but it would surely discourage A LOT of new players and the game systems shouldn't incentivize alts in that case (credos, feasting system, being able to lose lawspeaker, etc.), and even then, big factions could maintain enough alt accounts to run most of their bots (a lot of them don't require multiple accounts) through tokens, so i guess the whole thing would only hurt people living in villages that don't just give them tokens to upkeep the premium account/hermits.

[vatas]

I was thinking something like base 300 farming for a farming bot - I should've been more specific.

If you are raising stats to PvP, you definitely need the paid stat gain bonuses.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Anyway, make things more complicated and punishing to counter bots!!!

Adding a cheese equivalent of bum burn isn't going to make things more complicated to punish bots. It's just accepting the reality that:

1. Cheese is the best category of food.
2. It is a hugely tedious process to maintain swill, manage herds, milk animals, make curds, and move trays.
3. All of these are easily automated.
4. They can all be done safely inside a base.
5. Botting this is more or less zero cost with no upkeep once set up.

If any 3 of these were changed, the issue would be less problematic.

Or we could simply get cheese equivalent to bum burn.