Something should be done about fast travel ted talk

[maze]

imagine if snail didnt respond in this thread - all the posts would be like "omg no, fast travel good"

IMPOSSIBLE. I would insufferable comment how I hate teleportation and tell the world how I will trade from my wagon; and how that will make a better world.

But honestly; fk teleporting.
You got signpost to thingwalls, then thingwalls all around the world, then sign post from the spot you pick to the village you want to grief.
Then you got mightysheep leaving a bot afk at 4am chopping down roads, and a snail bot building new roads up.

Bro's are putting in all the effort for all the bigboi villages, what *checks list* is anyone over 2 people.

[SnuggleSnail]

Xir, you turned up to fights defending the least liked group in the game (WB), your group then proceeded to talk mad trash after losing. You then allied a major faction (Ozzy/Casuals). You settled like 3 mini-maps from a vortex. Then people tried to gank your group like 5 times across an entire world.

You're literally fucking insane if you think you're one of the people who deserves to be left alone. You being targeted instead of random hermits dying is unironically a sign things are working well. You didn't even get targeted very hard, you're literally just scared of a naked alt afk nearby your base, which spoiler: would still be there without teleportation.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

I agree with Shaki.

Let's talk sense here: With fast travel, as soon as travel weariness stops being a limiting factor every fight is mostly predetermined because the factions know who is on their side before a fight even begins. Since sides are mostly known, the outcome can be accurately predicted. Shaki and Ozzy needed to create their own alliance to counter the Sheep/Felix/Snail alliance.

Presumably, Shaki would like smaller PvP groups to be viable on the faction competitive scene again, which is hard when one alliance can instantly project numbers across the entire map at no cost past the very early-game.

Although lack of fast travel is extremely cumbersome and stops trade, its omnipresence without penalty also means that geographic distances between PvP groups stops mattering and nut cup mega alliances become the norm. This world was the latest meteor we've ever gotten, and it was also the first world where the first meteor went entirely uncontested. The moot was the deadest this world *ever* - Go back and look at World 9, prior to thingwalls, when PVP still had perma-death guaranteed.

Shaki is right. It's a problem, but he didn't propose the answer. I will:
There's a solution to this that doesn't penalize trade (sorry Maze), but also makes teleporting around for PvP less attractive but still possible. Make travel weariness give a debuff to character movespeed that scales from 0-20% reduction scaling from 0-100% travel weariness. That would clearly make it difficult for huge groups to instantly teleport around and take every fight - They still *could*, but the frequency with which they do this and the numbers that they teleport will be unsustainable at a certain point.

That would imply that teleporting in to fights would still be possible, but you'd need a ton of leaves to instantly drop the travel weariness. Or alternatively, you'd be temporarily vulnerable until you smoked it off.

It'd strike a reasonable balance between having fast travel available for non-PvP reasons, but greatly limit the viability for constant power projection. Leaves should also come with timers on them, like brimstone, and the alchemy cure for pipe wheeze should be slower. This would make teleportation of *large groups* quite expensive in the early->mid game, but keep it cheap when leaves become plentiful in the late world when arguably teleportation is the only thing that might make PvPers ever see each other because population runs so low.

tl;dr Keep teleportation as is. Give small speed debuff that scales based on how high your travel weariness is. Nerf pipe wheeze alchemy cure speed, and make leaves have time limits. This balances the competing interests between trade, PvP, small groups, and large groups, in that it doesn't penalize non-PVP use of fast travel, and allows PvP use of fast travel with some economic (or time) cost associated with it.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Because Snail deleted his response to my post as I was posting, I'll upload it here for everyone else's benefit, and my reply:



Should FEPing be deleted just because you can cheese bot?
Should hunger be deleted because you can salt bot?

There's a limitation on how much effort you are going to put in to attempting to bot and break every system in the game when the worlds are shorter.
There's nothing stopping you from setting up networks of heartwood leaf bots. But it'll be an economic cost on you, the same as it will any other faction that wants to power project.

That's literally part of the proposal: It doesn't restrict it, it just adds an additional cost.

[SnuggleSnail]

It is INSANE how often people suggest massive resource sinks, or insanely high effort projects be a prerequisite to participate in PVP as a way to make things better for casuals. Yes, surely I will not have infinite heartwood leaves but Brodgar will.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

We both know you are arguing against this insincerely, because it will nerf your playstyle, Snail.

We both know heartwood leaves in the early world have significant timers before initial spawns.
We both know that heartwood leaves having timers on them like brimstone will stop their infinite accumulation.
We both know that if they were contested like salt, you'd be able to get less of them than heartwood leaves which are currently more or less uncontested.
We both know that the sheer amount of teleportation you would do would greatly eat into heartwood leave stockpiles and effectively limit your ability to freely teleport the entire world, to every village, every day, to try to stalk the occupants, after which you attempt to summon your friends on discord to come gank whoever is chasing you.

Even if what you are saying is absolutely true (which I strongly contest), we can still fix this assuming the truth of your argument: Further nerf heartwood leaves if they break the effectiveness of the proposed fix.

[SnuggleSnail]

Na, I'm arguing against it because limited teleporting has been done before and EVERYBODY hated it, but a new group of people who weren't around it before are using the exact same arguments as last time.

Ask your buddy Trollex how valuable salt was when I was salt low effort salt botting when he was in our willig. By week 2 everybody in the village was eating half a cupboard of salt every other day. By week 4 the bots were eating the salt because we had so much I was only running them to prevent others from getting it.

This is 1:1 the same as when your squad argued to remove speedbuffs, then in the new more brutal one sided world got IMMEDIATELY shit on and all asked for it to be reverted. Retarded hermits are incapable of not shooting themselves in the foot.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Na, I'm arguing against it because limited teleporting has been done before and EVERYBODY hated it, but a new group of people who weren't around it before are using the exact same arguments as last time.

Ask your buddy Trollex how valuable salt was when I was salt low effort salt botting when he was in our willig. By week 2 everybody in the village was eating half a cupboard of salt every other day. By week 4 the bots were eating the salt because we had so much I was only running them to prevent others from getting it.

This is 1:1 the same as when your squad argued to remove speedbuffs, then in the new more brutal one sided world got IMMEDIATELY shit on and all asked for it to be reverted. Retarded hermits are incapable of not shooting themselves in the foot.

That's a poor straw man attempt to equate my suggestion with the removal of fast travel.

Besides, we have documentary proof that PvP was very healthy in previous worlds when we didn't have thingwalls everywhere to allow instant teleportation of entire alliances to any corner of the world.
One need only go back to check out the World 9 moot and compare it this current one to see.

Also, lolz @ trying to attribute the removal of speedbuffs to me, an alternative argument I had nothing to do with, in an attempt to undermine this valid proposal.
Are you going to keep spamming your autistic drivel to try to drown this out, Snuggleboi? Let's let some others chime in.

[Dawidio123]

Jesus christ
Bro gonna come in here, say he has an answer to all the complex issues, and then say it should slow you down if you use fast travel.
People should stop trying to touch movement speed.

Also back in the days you just built roads (or charters for argument sake) to wherever you wanted as there were no oceans and roads were a lot cheaper to use on long distances. So arguing pvp was healthy without thingwalls when there was an alternative is just cope.

Overall i'd like to make it pretty clear I don't expect things to really change, but since everyone is probably pushing for some of their ideas and new world soontm so i thought ah why not make a rant about smth i think is kinda dumb.

[catgode]

Bro gonna come in here, say he has an answer to all the complex issues, and then say it should slow you down if you use fast travel.
People should stop trying to touch movement speed.

I feel like debuffs associated with TW are a good idea, but nerfing movement speed will feel bad across the board for every use, even just walking around a market would feel ass.

Nerfing combat stats is a compromise I'd propose, but it's probably unlikely that a balance would be reached where the nerfs aren't obnoxious for PvE, while still making a difference for PvP (especially if sheer numbers can trump the debuffs anyway).