why you are retarded (and bald)

[linkfanpc]

ur post about liking the system is larp, the system itself is just spreadsheets and mining

virgin "why do you like this game it's just a bunch of math" vs chad "cool, a game with a lot of math"

i won't be the ten trillionth person to tell you "durr if you dont like the game dont play it" but i hope one day you find a game or activity that fills your heart like haven does mine.

[whateverisfine]

If the crafting in haven were good there would be more than 1-2 villages with good industry per world. The only people who glaze haven's crafting have quality 27 anvils ,and a level 2 minehole. It's LARP.

so if i like something i must be very good at it?

[SnuggleSnail]

u have to achieve a certain baseline level of competency with a material to critically analyze it, yes

[linkfanpc]

u have to achieve a certain baseline level of competency with a material to critically analyze it, yes

i'm not going to critically analyze the mechanical function of something when it's pulled me in and consumed 3,000+ hours of my life and i've loved every second of it. (not entirely true, i have and decided its goated, but you know what i mean)

sometimes it's not a problem with the thing it's a problem with you just not liking it but WANTING to. and that's ok.

(that is not true for anything to do with pvp/crime/death in this game, only its pve side)

[azrid]

Game will never be what pvpers want it to be its just too much work.
They would be better off creating haven 3 with pvp actually as the focus.

[Nightdawg]

Game will never be what pvpers want it to be its just too much work.
They would be better off creating haven 3 with pvp actually as the focus.

it unfortunately won't be what PVE-ers want either, and this makes me very sad

[Rebs]

*Sighs*

TLDR: RIP Haven

This constant battle between Haven being a PvP game versus it being better as a PvE game is the most pointless topic. You will never convince the other side otherwise, so what the hell is the point?

The devs will just cater to the loudest group in order to keep their pockets full every reset, which, in nearly all games, is the PvE crowd. We live in a world where battle royale and extraction games like Dark and Darker, Arc Raiders, Tarkov, and hell, even Rust all have PvE servers. This is fundamentally against the original design of those games, but they got bullied into it, and Haven is following that exact same trajectory. I don't think there is much anyone can do about it. Those of us who play the game for competition will just have to move on and accept that another banger PvP game was stolen from us because people like playing FarmVille retextured. They simply can't play standard FarmVille over and over because it gets boring (FarmVille being a placeholder for any single-player PvE survival game).

I was really hoping these short worlds were going to bring back that legacy chaos while people who don't like being sieged every night enjoyed their World 16 freedoms. But they (the PvE'ers) won't let us have that and insist on crying about it instead of going and playing Vintage Story.

And before anyone interjects with, "But if the majority of the player base says they want non-PvP worlds, they should go in that direction"... wrong. This is what we call "being a sellout."

I might start gathering up all the PvP gamers and take them to cottagecore games demanding PvP, just to flip the script.

It’s also worth pointing out that both Fortnite and Arc Raiders actually started out as PvE games. They had to pivot because the pure PvE gameplay loops were boring and repetitive. Haven going PvE would head down that exact same path. Unlocking metal or grinding quality for the 1,000th time isn't inherently fun on its own; it might be fun a couple of times, but repeatable excitement comes from the competitive edge it gives you over other players. There are hundreds of survival games people play once and never pick up again, no matter the amount of updates, and Haven will just join that list if it goes PvE.

[linkfanpc]

This constant battle between Haven being a PvP game versus it being better as a PvE game is the most pointless topic. You will never convince the other side otherwise, so what the hell is the point?

the point is more nuanced than that. the point is that haven's PvE side is far more interesting and complex and satisfactory to the 'tism mind than pretty much any of survival crafter on the planet, but many struggle to interact with that PvE side due to the PvP side. On the other hand however, the existence of the PvP side is what transends haven's already above-par PvE to be an experience far grander, memorable, and meaningful than it would be alone, and depriving it of that violent side is depriving haven of a large part of what makes it itself.

The devs will just cater to the loudest group in order to keep their pockets full every reset, which, in nearly all games, is the PvE crowd.

it is extremely arguable which "side" the devs "cater" to. it's in fact probably most arguable that they have no idea which side they want to nor end up catering to.

We live in a world where battle royale and extraction games like Dark and Darker, Arc Raiders, Tarkov, and hell, even Rust all have PvE servers. This is fundamentally against the original design of those games, but they got bullied into it, and Haven is following that exact same trajectory. I don't think there is much anyone can do about it.

it's fascinating you give those 4 games as an example when all 4 of those games suck ass without the PvP. just abhorrently badly designed, boring games whose only reason to play is the interesting interaction you can have with other players. is your point that people who wanted those game to become PvE are deliberately trying to play a bad game just to stick it to the griefers? maybe...but that doesn't apply to haven, which is even without PvP a very good game.

Those of us who play the game for competition will just have to move on and accept that another banger PvP game was stolen from us because people like playing FarmVille retextured. They simply can't play standard FarmVille over and over because it gets boring (FarmVille being a placeholder for any single-player PvE survival game).

I was really hoping these short worlds were going to bring back that legacy chaos while people who don't like being sieged every night enjoyed their World 16 freedoms. But they (the PvE'ers) won't let us have that and insist on crying about it instead of going and playing Vintage Story.

myeah, again, you seem to be the on the side of "why don't you just go play this game instead?!" and the answer is that i did play vintage story, it's pretty good, but playing it kind of just made me want to play haven again. haven has and does everything it has and does but better and more. now i, personally, also love haven for it's PvP side, or more specifically i think the constant tension and threat given by the chaos of real humans only amplifies the survival/crafter part of the game, everything i build and craft and level up feels a lot more impactful to me personally knowing there are others who are hunting me, and yet i cheat death. but there are other people who just don't have the heart or the time to interact with that part of the game, don't have the days off to spend rebuilding after their first nooby settlement they spent 3 days working on gets bulldozed because they didn't know to prioritize getting a palisade.

what, exactly, are those people supposed to do, who played the game, LOVED what it had to offer, but just aren't quite the right player to thrive in it, due to this 1 aspect of it, even though they really want to? if your answer is seriously just "too bad, quit the game." then the whole overarching problem here is that you're simply a dumb and rude person. if your answer is "hmm, i'm not really sure, that's a hard problem to fix." then, yeah, that's pretty much the unanimous thought.

And before anyone interjects with, "But if the majority of the player base says they want non-PvP worlds, they should go in that direction"... wrong. This is what we call "being a sellout."

i can most certainly understand where you're coming from here, but i think you should realize "i and my self-admitted minority should be the only ones to enjoy this thing and everyone else should GO FUCK THEMSELVES!!!" is a really weird hill to die on. you think that the very special, very unique, very weird form of haven as a PvPvE game should be conserved, as it's the only thing truly like it out there, and i do agree because i also love that, but you fail to realize that the PvE form of haven is just as special to some people and just as unique and endangered, and even currently extinct to a certain extent as there is still no true way to enjoy it's PvE side without the threat of murder or siege, even in consideration of the fact that siege is almost not real and murder is not as crippling as it used to be.

so again my question is why is YOUR ideal version of haven (which coincidentally is also mine) the one that deserves to exist and the OTHER ideal version of haven and all the people who love and want to play it should be ignored?

I might start gathering up all the PvP gamers and take them to cottagecore games demanding PvP, just to flip the script.

that analogy is illogical. haven has both PvE and PvP, it's understandable most people pick 1 of those as their favorite side and would prefer if 1 were focused on. cottagecore games don't have PvP.

It’s also worth pointing out that both Fortnite and Arc Raiders actually started out as PvE games. They had to pivot because the pure PvE gameplay loops were boring and repetitive. Haven going PvE would head down that exact same path.

one last time, i kind of agree in a way, but haven can't be compared to something like arc raiders because arc raiders pve is just running around shooting boring robot enemies. the fact you keep labeling haven as just the same as dayz/rust/arc kind of implies to me you just don't actually interact with or like the game.

Unlocking metal or grinding quality for the 1,000th time isn't inherently fun on its own; it might be fun a couple of times, but repeatable excitement comes from the competitive edge it gives you over other players. There are hundreds of survival games people play once and never pick up again, no matter the amount of updates, and Haven will just join that list if it goes PvE.

this is just a really stupid mentality. of course haven's pve does not lend itself to being played indefinitely; because that's how video games work. you play them for a time, then set them down, then pick them up again in the future. the people who play tarkov or rust for 30k+ hours are just boring people with an addiction. don't try to say haven pve is inferior to rust pvp because people probably won't play it day in, day out, for 10 years.

[azrid]

This constant battle between Haven being a PvP game versus it being better as a PvE game is the most pointless topic. You will never convince the other side otherwise, so what the hell is the point?

I feel like the 20 to 30 pvpers are generally way more dissapointed in the state of this games pvp than the 900 pve players are dissapointed in the pve side of things.
Point is that a lot of people are enjoying this game even if pvp is ass.

[wolf1000wolf]

This constant battle between Haven being a PvP game versus it being better as a PvE game is the most pointless topic. You will never convince the other side otherwise, so what the hell is the point?

I feel like the 20 to 30 pvpers are generally way more dissapointed in the state of this games pvp than the 900 pve players are dissapointed in the pve side of things.
Point is that a lot of people are enjoying this game even if pvp is ass.

The combat is ass. And if the combat gameplay sucks, then a large part of PvP gameplay's fun is just not there.

Whereas even if the combat sucks, there's still lots of PvE stuff to do that doesn't involve combat.