Critique: Game mechanics allow for dirty charter exploit

[ZamAlex]

Firstly, this isn't an exploit, it's a literal skill issue on your part - whether lack of knowledge or common sense.


Secondly, there's far more grievous things that are not exploits that the developers don't care about. A good example occurred yesterday during a siege, where the defending party (Norsca, likely the same group you're referring to with this rant about chartering to the wrong place) ran a bot to create many dozens of alts all controlled by one person and marched them to block a palisade entrance. With the use of the great feature of "The path to your approach is blocked!" (The gate itself preventing aggro), it effectively made it incredibly difficult for the sieging side to port fighters in to defend.

Wave 1:

After these were slowly killed via the use of ranged weapons and the bodies mostly stuffed into the house, wave 2 appeared:

And then they also went ahead and spawned an entire new army afterwards using the charterstone itself:

The fact here is that the developers don't care as neither issue being described is actually an exploit. I believe it to be actively recommended by them to do this type of thing because it's very much in the category of 'fair play'.

You should be happy that the actual game breaking / world ending bugs and exploits aren't being utilized right now - I'm half tempted to make a few alt accounts myself just to get us to w16.1.5 a little quicker

tldr; Stop whining and get good

Skills issue, lmao.

[Halbertz]

In the current state of the game, any exchange in the game requires mutual trust. Even a barter stand requires both parties to trust the market claim owner. "Just fix it" won't work in these matters. The game is just designed like this, and changes will require more than 5 minutes of code copy-paste, making it impossible to ask for from the beginning.

Regarding the second post and further seething in an unrelated thread: there were ten different options to avoid what happened, but you chose the laziest option ever and even bragged about it on discord Stylize. And now it's somehow "not fair". Reconsider your values.

[Kamekono]

You should always be able to evict, that's not up for debate. Too easy to grief if that wasn't an option.

That being said, there is another option to solve this: if you get evicted, you instead get teleported to your own HF, rather than just outside the claim. That should solve the problem, and I can't think of real negative outcomes.

"Shit we're being sieged and losing the fight, quick, evict me so I port safely home before I get KO'd"

Stop trying to fix the evict mechanic, that's not even what the issue here is. This entire thread exists because villages don't have a way to just turn their charter off without losing the name that someone can then steal. Add a toggle to disable teleporting, let them keep the password in, done.

What? If it's your own village, you can't get evicted. A non-issue right there.

As for the charter thing, easy fix is having it have a set name when you build it, and that's it. No more changing name, turning on/off just activates/deactivates.

But OP is not asking for that, but rather asking for a way to avoid the evict->ko->steal practice.

[azrid]

Call them out!
That's all you can do.
Tell people not to trade with this village as they charter kill people.
This kind of behavior was more common in legacy and you could ruin your reputation doing it.
The killer was

And the village owner is

Be careful when you interact with them they can't be trusted!

[FaithfulToadd]

Please also direct me to where the developers wrote 'As a host of a public gathering, in any form, whether it be meeting person or for trade, I should be unable to defend my property or seek revenge through intrigue and guile, by inviting people unto my property'. Please.

Can you show me where my solution prevents you from defending your property? It doesn't - it only gives visitors a chance to leave before things turn ugly. After that, you're free to attack them as normal. The 'intrigue and guile' bit can be debated back and forth, but I sense we're not getting anywhere, if you, like MightySheep, think the present state of affairs is 'fine' and 'a non-issue'. We disagree. You should know my position on this by now.

If you're not convinced at this point, and are more interested in scoring points and being snarky than defending your position, I think the discussion is over. What's a gal to do?

In the current state of the game, any exchange in the game requires mutual trust. Even a barter stand requires both parties to trust the market claim owner. "Just fix it" won't work in these matters. The game is just designed like this, and changes will require more than 5 minutes of code copy-paste, making it impossible to ask for from the beginning.

Things could be different, though. I have seen only 2 other replies in this thread that offer any kind of solution to OP's issue. Let me go on record as saying, again, it is an issue worth fixing. It's rather disheartening to hear most of you believe that this is the best of all possible worlds, and that some even believe the current state of affairs is just and reasonable, i.e. 'not an exploit', whatever that means.

My conclusion is, there's a serious lack of imagination going on - unless the arguments presented here were made in bad faith, in which case, it seems they don't belong here in C&I.

Good day to you.

Edit: Fixed a typo mentioning the wrong person.

[Hasta]

gives visitors a chance to leave before things turn ugly

Why tho. It's not that kind of game. It's your responsibility to watch out for yourself.

The learning curve is... a curvy kurwa here, our devbois added quite a lot of explanatory quests at start, yet at some point the tutorial have to cease. I'd argue if you feel ready to trade, the training wheels are off and you're on your own.

I've lost my first character to a really, really small river. I think it was W6. Noone explained to me that drowning is instadeath and that my stamina is shit. Waah waah. Gief 30 seconds window to tp out of deep water when stamina low.
I'm just clowning and hyperbolizing, obviously, but that's how the situation looks for most oldtimey players on this forum

P.S. an exploit is a way for other player to gain upper hand over you without your actions creating the "exploited" situation. When it's your actions that led to you being at a disadvantage, and the other player uses it to his benefit - it's not an exploit, it's (and I use this in most literal, respectful and good-intended way) a skill issue. Not knowing how the trap works and falling into that trap does not make the trap an exploit. Most you can argue here is "make using a Charterstone force players to peek ahead by default, toggleable to tp being the default option". Or elaborate on dangers of teleporting in the Thingwall dialog, but that's, like, meh.

[Nightdawg]

Call them out!
That's all you can do.
Tell people not to trade with this village as they charter kill people.
This kind of behavior was more common in legacy and you could ruin your reputation doing it.
The killer was

And the village owner is

Be careful when you interact with them they can't be trusted!

[FaithfulToadd]

Waah waah. Gief 30 seconds window to tp out of deep water when stamina low. I'm just clowning and hyperbolizing, obviously, but that's how the situation looks for most oldtimey players on this forum

Yes, not to mention a PvE death, as you describe, being a very different ballgame to PvP shenanigans and 'intrigue and guile', as someone else put it. I appreciate your respectful demeanor, btw - thank you. But don't you agree that the trade and community aspect of the game would be better served if players knew they couldn't be griefed by charterstones? It's just uniquely weird that travelling to a public Charterstone destination immediately forfeits your right to months and months of progress, with no chance to bury your corpse, or even die in the first place. It's not intuitive, and doesn't fit with the other PvP mechanics. Surely if the wider community were aware of this meta, they would never use a Charterstone, ever, or only use alts to travel to them. That's bad.

If the devs want to promote markets, they'll add Lawspeaker's Grace, or some other solution to these griefing methods. And it is just griefing - not PvP or self defense, or anything else. It's just a way for players to be ugly to each other. The average player visiting a public market has no idea they're on a knife's edge.

[Moonpoppy]

Imagine allying a known paedophile.

[MightySheep]

It's not intuitive, and doesn't fit with the other PvP mechanics. Surely if the wider community were aware of this meta, they would never use a Charterstone, ever, or only use alts to travel to them. That's bad.

The average player visiting a public market has no idea they're on a knife's edge.

Whats not intuitive about it? Im pretty sure 99% of players understand that porting into someones village is taking a leap of faith. Even public markets and public wells. They would cease to exist the moment they chose to attack someone so you can use COMMON SENSE to figure out where to port. Nobody that wasn't a complete idiot has ever died to using a charter.

Maybe the exact evict KO mechanics arent intuitive but I dont even really care to defend that and wouldnt care if it got removed and makes no difference to the overall conversation about porting to charters. The fact is, of all the things Id like to see the devs spend their 30 minutes a month of dev time on, this is possibly the most irrelevant and pointless non issue that you could come up with. You could count the number of times this has been an issue on 1 hand.