Daily reminder that animal nodes encourage botting

[terechgracz]

Wouldn't very tight quality ranges fix these issues @APEXOLOG?

IMO: Botting can't be argument to anything because you can just bot anything these days. Many free software to develop automatic planning, hierarchical pathfinding - in theory you could just create fully automated base and whatever mechanics you put to combat botting such base will always be better.

[Robertzon]

If there would me no spots, if would mean the spot would be anywhere. People will just wall 3*3 grids of the specific biom and refresh it with bots every 20 minutes and kill animals (probably even killing it with bots cos it would be safe to leave combat chars there). At least with the current system you need to find and control the specific point.

You can currently wall off high q nodes as well??? This is a bad take

[Vraatjuh]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I have no illusion of competing with the big bois. I just don't see fun gameplay in having to put an alt at a spawn spot of bears/moose/cave anglers in order to get a steady amount of high quality products.

Okay, let's finally move the discussion from "what is good for an average player" to "what I don't like about this game" because that's what it really is. It's not bad; I just don't like it when people refer to "it's a me-thing" as "it's like that for everyone."

I understand your standpoint - you want to have high-q materials available for you with less effort. It's a debatable topic and there is no correct answer to it, it's just a personal preference.
The suggested approach though is to transform hunting basically into a casino. The only way to counter random predictably - is to increase the amount of spins. So I see 3 scenarios of this change (from the big village standpoint):
1. The high-q animals are quite often -> industry competition takes a massive hit, making mining even more mandatory.
2. The high-q animals are quite rare:
a) Everyone is forced to hunt and rush surv
b) People start to bot hunting

Nothing changes for the "average casual hnh players", either industry-lovers or normal villagers are affected. Also increases the botting.

I do not think you understand my standpoint. I want the off-chance of getting high-q materials whilst doing a fun and engaging activity. If I wanted low effort high q bones I would want the current system to stay. Because I can just put an alt at a high quality spot and log-in every 20-ish minutes to check for roaming animals.

I do agree however that it is a debatable topic without a correct answer. But isn't that always the case? 99% of the people hated the removal of the previous quick travel mechanism, but here we are because of the 1%. It's also obviously not just me who dislikes the current system, as shown by this being a hot topic since at least 2020 and the various kind of players responding in this topic.

Regarding your point 1. - How is this different then currently? They are already 'quite often' because you all bot the shit out of the high Q spots with pingers. And then you move to 2. b) which is basically bot hunting. I'm sure that would be quite easily achievable for cave anglers already for instance if not done already.

[Nightdawg]

Yes, I pretty much came up with this idea because of pinging bots. (Probably everyone who wants them removed had the same thought)
I used to hunt all over the map too, but once we found a couple of good spots, I didn't have to search for anything for the rest of the world, just drop an alt that checks every 20 minutes and pings us in discord xD
Sure, you can continue searching, but you just drop more pinging alts at that point.

I just figured removing those quality nodes would solve the issue and give an *equal* chance to all players to find good animals...

Additionally, right now you can be ultra lucky and settle next to some super high quality spot from the start. There's no way for anyone to know if they do that, so it's pure luck when it comes to this.

What we have now:
1) Hunt till you find a super high spot (can take a week, can take a month)
2) Drop pinging bot there and use it for the rest of the world.

I would rather have rare high q animals, with random spawns, so people who hunt will all have an equal chance. And if you hunt 10 times more than other people, you won't depend on pure luck to find a good spot.
Or at least a change in this regard?

[Zampfeo]

Most resources in Haven depend on weeks of scouting for high q nodes and then taking control of said node. I don't think hunting should be any different. Could the "need" for pinging bots be removed some other way? There are certain things, like mammoths and early candleberries, that get pinged regardless of node quality, after all.

I am a little rusty on how spawning is coded, but IIRC things spawn in tiles when they are loaded. What if the game just didn't spawn anything on the 9 initial tiles that are loaded when a player logs in? Instead, only spawning things when a player moves into the tile. It could still be botted, but would require pathfinding and the bot could be killed more easily.

[Nightdawg]

Most resources in Haven depend on weeks of scouting for high q nodes and then taking control of said node. I don't think hunting should be any different. Could the "need" for pinging bots be removed some other way? There are certain things, like mammoths and early candleberries, that get pinged regardless of node quality, after all.

I am a little rusty on how spawning is coded, but IIRC things spawn in tiles when they are loaded. What if the game just didn't spawn anything on the 9 initial tiles that are loaded when a player logs in? Instead, only spawning things when a player moves into the tile. It could still be botted, but would require pathfinding and the bot could be killed more easily.

We'd use a road then.

[azrid]

you want to have high-q materials available for you with less effort.

High quality bones on a solo hunter are wasted. The real value is him being able to offer those bones to bigger villages.
Increased player interaction, better economy moving slightly further away from the token only trade.

With gildings getting enough survival is a peace of cake for a solo player.
We are playing an mmo after all and having more economic interaction between the small boys and quality grinders is a good thing.

We already know that people are gonna be too lazy to hunt all those bones by themselves so bone trade is guaranteed with this change

I would say this is the most important change for the new world to come.

[SnuggleSnail]

I don't see a problem with highQ bones being a bit easier to get. I'd be willing the bet the vast majority of the playerbase have never seen a topQ bone or known where a topQ node even is.

Maybe 5 or 6 tryhard willages will reach their industry cap sooner, but I'd argue even for them the game will have more content as there'll be more trade/PVP to engage with.

[Reiber]

Replacing the need for a simple bot with the need for a complicated bot is not a positive change for balance or fun.

If the meta is botting highQ bones because you need a billion of them for industry make highQ bones common enough random nabs can farm them and sell them. Maybe put like 5-10 topQL bones IN THE CHESTS in every woof dungeon.

surely random nabs do woof dungeons

i am a random nab, and just before leaving i did little else than spam dungeons. cause they are fun, even if often unrewarding.
woofs are easily exploitable (you kind of need to) and everything below that is absolutely soloable with shitter stats and hand me down gear