Discuss Terraforming

[Merla]

Currently terraforming is the most frustrating & boring thing in this game for me, I don't find it fun or intuitive at all. Sure I like that we can terraform, but actually doing it in this game is something else... If you are trying to level an already mostly flattish area, it's not that bad but try doing it with certain areas and it's a nightmare. Some places in the game are flatter than others, and sure you could build on those places over any other place, but why is terraforming even in the game, if it will take ages to move 50,000+ dirt, MANUALLY(carry each piece of dirt in your inventory and then go drop it somewhere, yes that's over 50,000 squares in your inventory) in your inventory, just to flatten the EDGE of a side of a very steep hill.

- Even digging 500-1,000 dirt could take you HOURS, probably even your whole day or more of playing, you need to drink water, eat, and drop the dirt out of your inventory somewhere else(Could even be a 5 to 10 minute trip depending on where you need to get rid of it at!) if you don't have a nearby area where the slope is low and unlevel. Currently as it stands, I doubt one person by themselves will currently be able to dig even over 1,000 dirt and move it to the proper place in a single real life day where they did nothing but digging the entire day(especially manually), and even if someone did manage it, I can assure you it'd be the entire day and probably entire night as well, and they'd need a huge supply of cooked rats(so they don't ruin their attributes and get over-stuffed) and water right next to them, and did I mention it's incredibly boring?

- What's more, is that you may not even be able to select a wide enough area because it may be so steep, so your character will just stop altogether..

- And why does it make sense to only allow one person to work with a survey at a time? (I understand it may be hard to program that in, but still doesn't make sense to me)

- The path finding is also very bad, your character will constantly get stuck on rocks, trees, fences, water, cliffs(which are magnetic), & even some slopes!

- There's no way to "store" extra dirt besides dropping it somewhere.

- Perhaps you don't want people to easily create cliffs, but why is it extremely hard to even dig one to get rid of it? You have to pile tons and tons of dirt onto it first (only through "make level", because you can't even manually do it!)

- At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if you implemented bulldozers and it still took a group of people two weeks of doing nothing else but that, to flatten the side of a hill with them. Even if we had bulldozers, it wouldn't be useful much because it wouldn't be a new player item as new players are the ones the current terraforming system will hurt the most, they need flat ground to build their things on, and it doesn't make sense to make many camps and then move everything again later, in fact most things can't be moved at all once they are built, like buildings... all H&H 2 players are still considered new because this game was just released into alpha just days ago. How many people do you really think you will see just abandoning their old camps (that they only chose because they have flat/flattish ground) just to flatten a VERY dirt filled area somewhere else much later in the game? It just wouldn't be viable in more ways than one.




Some quick suggestions for now:
- Make it so that cliffs are no longer "magnetic".
- Add dirt stockpiles.
- Allow multiple people to use a survey at one time.
- Allow us to manually drop dirt onto cliffs and steep slopes..
- Make it so that you can carry hundreds of dirt at once, akin to something like how it was in Salem.
- Allow us to designate a cart as the object which we are throwing dirt into to transport it.
- Fix pathfinding so that our characters don't get stuck on objects when trying to "make level".
- Allow us to more easily dig a cliff and turn it into a hill without having to throw dirt onto it.
- Add some low level ways to increase speed of digging (I'm already using the shovel and waterflask, but this is nowhere near what is needed) and more things to reduce the stamina drain for digging.

Please discuss.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

Some places in the game are flatter than others, but why is terraforming even in the game, if it will take ages to move 50,000+ dirt, MANUALLY(carry each piece of dirt in your inventory and then go drop it somewhere, yes that's over 50,000 squares in your inventory) in your inventory, just to flatten the side of a steep hill.
- Even digging 500-1,000 dirt could take you HOURS, probably even your whole day or more of playing, you need to drink water, eat, and drop the dirt out of your inventory somewhere else if you don't have a nearby area where the slope is low and unlevel.
- At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if you implemented bulldozers and it still took a group of people two weeks to flatten the side of a hill with them.
- What's more, is that you may not even be able to select a wide enough area because it may be so steep, so your character will just stop altogether..
- And why does it make sense to only allow one person to work with a survey at a time? (I understand it may be hard to program that in, but still doesn't make sense to me)
- The path finding is also very bad, your character will constantly get stuck on rocks, trees, fences, water, cliffs(which are magnetic), & even some slopes!
- There's no way to "store" extra dirt besides dropping it somewhere.
- Perhaps you don't want people to easily create cliffs, but why is it extremely hard to even dig one to get rid of it? You have to pile tons and tons of dirt onto it (only through "make level", because you can't even manually do it!)

Please discuss.

I personally enjoy terraforming, and have already done quite a bit of it. Shovels make it go much faster, and it makes some areas of the world less habitable than others, but some just need a bit of work to make perfect.

I myself mostly work with the landscape, but I have made a couple of decent size trenches and then built the landmass for the palisade to gradually slope up.

Why is it in the game? Because for those with the desire, it makes the landscape possibilities that much more interesting. I suspect it may even, eventually, have defensive benefits.

Re: Storing - Dirts dirt, of course it's going to get stored in a pile. A big pile of dirt *IS* a dirt stockpile. Otherwise crates and such are options if for some reason you aren't happy just moving it.

[Teleskop]

Some places in the game are flatter than others, but why is terraforming even in the game, if it will take ages to move 50,000+ dirt, MANUALLY(carry each piece of dirt in your inventory and then go drop it somewhere, yes that's over 50,000 squares in your inventory) in your inventory, just to flatten the side of a steep hill.
- Even digging 500-1,000 dirt could take you HOURS, probably even your whole day or more of playing, you need to drink water, eat, and drop the dirt out of your inventory somewhere else if you don't have a nearby area where the slope is low and unlevel.
- At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if you implemented bulldozers and it still took a group of people two weeks to flatten the side of a hill with them.
- What's more, is that you may not even be able to select a wide enough area because it may be so steep, so your character will just stop altogether..
- And why does it make sense to only allow one person to work with a survey at a time? (I understand it may be hard to program that in, but still doesn't make sense to me)
- The path finding is also very bad, your character will constantly get stuck on rocks, trees, fences, water, cliffs(which are magnetic), & even some slopes!
- There's no way to "store" extra dirt besides dropping it somewhere.
- Perhaps you don't want people to easily create cliffs, but why is it extremely hard to even dig one to get rid of it? You have to pile tons and tons of dirt onto it (only through "make level", because you can't even manually do it!)

Please discuss.

I personally enjoy terraforming, and have already done quite a bit of it. Shovels make it go much faster, and it makes some areas of the world less habitable than others, but some just need a bit of work to make perfect.

I myself mostly work with the landscape, but I have made a couple of decent size trenches and then built the landmass for the palisade to gradually slope up.

Why is it in the game? Because for those with the desire, it makes the landscape possibilities that much more interesting. I suspect it may even, eventually, have defensive benefits.

Re: Storing - Dirts dirt, of course it's going to get stored in a pile. A big pile of dirt *IS* a dirt stockpile. Otherwise crates and such are options if for some reason you aren't happy just moving it.

Is there a point for trenching if heigh doesnt change gameplay in any term

[Merla]

I personally enjoy terraforming, and have already done quite a bit of it. Shovels make it go much faster, and it makes some areas of the world less habitable than others, but some just need a bit of work to make perfect.

I myself mostly work with the landscape, but I have made a couple of decent size trenches and then built the landmass for the palisade to gradually slope up.

Why is it in the game? Because for those with the desire, it makes the landscape possibilities that much more interesting. I suspect it may even, eventually, have defensive benefits.

Re: Storing - Dirts dirt, of course it's going to get stored in a pile. A big pile of dirt *IS* a dirt stockpile. Otherwise crates and such are options if for some reason you aren't happy just moving it.

But aren't you the same person that enjoys tool decay? I personally don't enjoy masochistic things. There's no point to make things tough, tedious and boring just 'because'.

I'm still waiting for this to be a thing. Axes, Picks, Pots, Etc that wear out over time with use.

It will keep the economy pumping, encourage trade, and give a reason for continual mining.

Is this on the table at all?

You even already agreed with one of my ideas that someone else thought of in another thread, perhaps you won't choose to ignore it in this one,

Ones for dirt as well please. Leveling generates thousands of dirt -- and can use thousands of dirt. Moving it by hand is incredibly tedious when the leveling areas aren't near one another.

Definitely dirt carts.

Or an alternate form of cart called a wheelbarrow that serves as a mobile stockpile.

[BoobyJo]

I agree that any considerable slope borders on impossible to tackle. While the terraforming system is innovative and demands a level of consideration for all players looking to settle, serious ingenuity and creative undertakings are stunted and beyond daunting. Solutions could be to scale the ratio of shovel quality to dirt moved, or to even have terrain and slopes above a certain z-level "feel gravity" and perhaps be dug even easier.

[TheG4MER14]

I see potential for terraforming to be a useful and interesting mechanic. However as of right now, elevation does not affect gameplay in any way other than to make building pointlessly more annoying.

[shubla]

I think that elevations are just stupid idea. They dont bring much to game, except... They require you to use large amount of time to terraform your village.. Maybe its just way to force people buy subscription?

[vatas]

I admit that having to shovel 9001 units of dirt is tedious but have you seen what kind of mountains this game now has thanks to actual elevations?

[shubla]

I admit that having to shovel 9001 units of dirt is tedious but have you seen what kind of mountains this game now has thanks to actual elevations?

mountains that you cant get down because camera is buggy and they are so high? Your character very realistically jumping like 200 meter cliffs up and down like its nothing?

[jorb]

Your character very realistically jumping like 200 meter cliffs up and down like its nothing?

Aww yeah, bossman Haven guy.

Srsly, though, there will be QQ when we do add limitations to the ridges.