New death system(Idea changed 2015-12-06 (thoughts?)

[overtyped]

-After being ko'd and finished off, you spawn in the wilderness(Your old body remains) Your new body will have a wound, Which will be lethal if sustained again within a set amount of time? (like a month)(The wound will heal naturally over a months time)

-this wound will reduce your hp by 80% and agility by 90%(even while wearing agi gear) and (uac/mc/archery by 75%) but keep all other stats intact*( with this you would be rendered unable to fight, but you could still function as a miner or a crafter.

Regardless of the cons, considering the size of the world, the benefit to hermits/casuals and people who don't use alts or don't want to fight, in my opinion far outweigh all cons, if you are found by a random griefer at least you get another chance.( to move 6 hours in another direction and not look back(never to be found again) ) and loftar keeps a subscriber.
CONS:

1: Because the casuals and hermits(and me) would still be playing their character after death(it increases their chance to die again(permanantly) the pvper upon their death will just wait until the debuff is gone(though a month is a long time), and go back to murdering. (though there isn't really a way to lose your pvper with the current system, if you use are just murdering hermits, because even a combat alt with 20 mc could do that)
2: Factions could make a bunch of combat alts(which they would probably never lose, because they would not play them until the debuff is gone(and create a pool of combat alts for anyone to use)
3 The game could end up like valhalla to some pvpers, because they will never lose anything, if they just hop on a different combat alt.
4: Factions would be harder to kill, because their fighters would just come back in a months time
5: People might be turned off on the idea, that actions have less consequences

If you can think of any cons, I'll add them here.

[DDDsDD999]

It'd suck if you wanted to raise your character in a different manner, e.g. you raised STR, AGI and CON and raised your MC, but then decided when you reincarnated to be a crafter or an archer and you're stuck with FEP bars that are way too hard to fill.

I think reimplementing einher and other prayers would be a more elegant solution than this. You can still call upon your former power so you don't feel your time was wasted, but you have to pay in sacrifice and effort every time. With trad sliders removed it'd be far less abusive, just need to rescale it to total LP in UA/MC/MM, rather than points, and it'd probs be fine to have it at 50% or so of ancestor's power.

100% permadeath is definitely not fun or healthy for the game. There needs to be a sense of sustainable power and lineages. Killing people felt substantial enough in previous worlds, it's just that the trad slider was stupid as hell, so I think making the game less harsh to people who die would be fine, at least to the old haven level. PvE is non-existent because dying is far too binary in PvE and unfun to deal with. Maybe if death had some dynamic to it, PvE could be toned up to more dangerous levels without being frustrating.

[overtyped]

It'd suck if you wanted to raise your character in a different manner, e.g. you raised STR, AGI and CON and raised your MC, but then decided when you reincarnated to be a crafter or an archer and you're stuck with FEP bars that are way too hard to fill.

I think reimplementing einher and other prayers would be a more elegant solution than this. You can still call upon your former power so you don't feel your time was wasted, but you have to pay in sacrifice and effort every time. With trad sliders removed it'd be far less abusive, just need to rescale it to total LP in UA/MC/MM, rather than points, and it'd probs be fine to have it at 50% or so of ancestor's power.

100% permadeath is definitely not fun or healthy for the game. There needs to be a sense of sustainable power and lineages. Killing people felt substantial enough in previous worlds, it's just that the trad slider was stupid as hell, so I think making the game less harsh to people who die would be fine, at least to the old haven level. PvE is non-existent because dying is far too binary in PvE and unfun to deal with. Maybe if death had some dynamic to it, PvE could be toned up to more dangerous levels without being frustrating.

Well, if you died and then wanted to be a crafter, yeah, you would be kind of fucked.
But, crafters as they are now, none ever leaves their base with them. If anything, this will promote people to balanced their stats better, to craft and fight on the same character.

[MrBunzy]

Wow guys, perma-death is the only thing keeping this game interesting, if you take that out its just a shitty mmo with sub par graphics and game mechanics.

people quit after death,(including me) and the population keeps decreasing because of it.

I've died 3 times already and I'm still playing. The only people who quit over the loss of a single character are care-bears and casuals.

[_Gunnar]

I agree with DDDs here that Einherjeraspekt should be reimplemented somehow, along with other prayers for crafter types, as long as we dont get those dumb numen-built anvils lategame again. Making it give back stats based on a proportion of LP seems too strong though since stats are O(sqrt(lp)) (same for attributes and feps); so if you get back stats corresponding to 50% of the LP you get just over 70% of the stats; however maybe i misunderstood your idea.

Overtyped's suggestion is bad imo since it gets rid of permadeath completely; while you're waiting for your character to recuperate you can just use an alt, and after a month its like nothing even happened. With the prayer it requires investment to get the stats back, on a temporary basis, plus its potentially cool for roleplay and stuff.

[As an aside, Overtyped, it really seemed to me like you died most recently because you were bored and wanted to quit not the other way round, but obviously you know your own reasons better than me ^^]

Edit: I would totally disagree that permadeath is the only interesting thing about the game, but it certainly is an interesting thing about it. I only really got into haven after i died to players for the first time... A lot of the charm of even peaceful social interactions in the game are made much more interesting because we have the freedom to delete other people's characters and objects. However the crafting and industry aspects are interesting too for a lot of people, and I think the game is very beautiful actually.

[bmjclark]

Wow guys, perma-death is the only thing keeping this game interesting, if you take that out its just a shitty mmo with sub par graphics and game mechanics.

people quit after death,(including me) and the population keeps decreasing because of it.

I've died 3 times already and I'm still playing. The only people who quit over the loss of a single character are care-bears and casuals.

2 deaths here and agreed. And ya, i miss einhar.

[linkfanpc]

Wow guys, perma-death is the only thing keeping this game interesting, if you take that out its just a shitty mmo with sub par graphics and game mechanics.

people quit after death,(including me) and the population keeps decreasing because of it.

I've died 3 times already and I'm still playing. The only people who quit over the loss of a single character are care-bears and casuals.

What he said. If someone is quitting because they died, then their a baby. Perma-death is what makes Haven, Haven.

[beardhat]

We die, we quit, we return.

One of the few things H&H does right was permadeath.

I'd rather see a good vs evil and/or declare village vs village war systems put into place to curtail random PKing other then outright removing it, you can leave random banditry, mugging, and theft in, thats good flavor.

But really, never ever ever remove permadeath, the reroll character system is fine, though without the Personal Belief system and the massive nerfs to foraging, rerolling is very painful.

[Archiplex]

Permadeath iss what rings a special vibe to this game- removing it would be changing it entirely would be changing the entire game as well.


Now, do I believe death should be slow, a cause of a major mistake and less "One small error and death forever?" And that you should be able to defend yourself a little easier? Probably.


The flaw in the game doesn't revolve around permadeath- it's in the execution. Permadeath merely defines the game (There's also a bad fusion of two categories such as infinite progression + permadeath]

[jorb]

Not a fan. Not entirely sure why, but I think permanent death is fine as it is. I've died once this world, and it didn't matter that much.