Combat Theorycraft Thread (meaningful class interactions)

[bmjclark]

The sad fact of it is, if you don't one shot someone who's defenses fall off, you're not super likely to kill them at all if they run. It's ridiculously hard to break someones defense if they have similar stats to you. Essence brings down your effective agility while using a sword and vit brings down your effective weight while using a sword so melee isn't likely to even break defenses unless the person you're attacking just isn't defending themselves at all. UA can be played around in a sense by running single colored defenses to not even block things like punch because it will literally never hurt you through armor anyways. If you go all in to break someones defenses and they have similar stats, they can likely spam defenses until yours fall off and you're forced to put defenses up (parry has a shorter cooldown than every attack and blocks every move in the game that could actually potentially hurt you through armor). The problem is made worse when any movement is involved.

[Kaios]

The sad fact of it is, if you don't one shot someone who's defenses fall off, you're not super likely to kill them at all if they run. It's ridiculously hard to break someones defense if they have similar stats to you. Essence brings down your effective agility while using a sword and vit brings down your effective weight while using a sword so melee isn't likely to even break defenses unless the person you're attacking just isn't defending themselves at all. UA can be played around in a sense by running single colored defenses to not even block things like punch because it will literally never hurt you through armor anyways. If you go all in to break someones defenses and they have similar stats, they can likely spam defenses until yours fall off and you're forced to put defenses up (parry has a shorter cooldown than every attack and blocks every move in the game that could actually potentially hurt you through armor). The problem is made worse when any movement is involved.

maybe stop fighting like scrubs all stacking up one guy trying to punch down his defense in a group fight and you won't get wrecked by the other people

one shot is dumb and maybe your combat experience differs from my own but I've never had a problem breaking defense in a 1v1 and in a group fight it's incredibly easy to catch someone when they have defenses down

[bmjclark]

Grouping and hitting someone is a great theory until you realize that if there's 2-3 of you chasing 1 guy, everyone running at the same speed that not all 3 of you are going to get a chance to hit him unless he forgets to drink or gets clipped on a tree or something. And if 2+ people run at you you'd be stupid not to run. 1v1 parry has a lower cooldown than every attack in the game, so you can literally spam it to stop everything unless they have an agility advantage (you could do some feign dodge stuff to try to break it, but again, movement is a thing in combat).

[Kaios]

From what I've seen the only reason someone gets away is because they have a boat nearby or friends with a boat nearby. If it is 1v1 and a guy swims across a river then yeah that one is kind of a lost cause simply because they can sit at the edge and block/fight you while you're trying to get over but at least with multiple persons chasing the chase does not have to end just because of the river.

I think including the use of tamed horses in combat now will change the chasing meta but how significantly I'm not really sure.

If 2+ people run at me and I'm on my own I'd be stupid not to run because a sword will fuck me up just as hard as a bow but if it didn't maybe I'd consider fighting.

[bmjclark]

I'm interested to see how horses change things, but at the same time i'd like to see more added to combat (advantage, debuffs of some kind from certain colored attacks) and maybe even some of the defense/attack colors removed. I'm honestly pretty convinced combat would feel a million times better if green and blue were the only colors and things were balanced around that, with defenses having more varied effects like zig zag maneuver's effect or an effect similar to old bloodlust (half weight, low duration, but increased weight on attacks while it lasts?)

[Kaios]

with defenses having more varied effects like zig zag maneuver's effect.

sorry but I can only laugh when I see someone using zig-zag right now, i'm going to punch down whatever other defense you have and just cleave you

[bmjclark]

Well ya, i don't mean it's good now but i like the idea of the effect it has =s

[Kaios]

It's at least good at preventing steal thunder a bit but I think my opinion is kind of the opposite of yours, if we had more varied cards with different colours I think this might lead to more dynamic combat.

[bmjclark]

I just think more colors being relevant slows combat down because you'll need larger decks to deal with it, and with movement i just don't know how it can work. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that , i guess we both agree combat needs more work though.

[Kaios]

it does, I don't think there's much they can really do about it until we have the opportunity to test out any changes they make like say in Valhalla before they implement them. It's obvious some player input is needed because yes combat does need a lot of work.