Let non villagers claim land on villages

[Ants]

It would be nice if non villagers could claim land on villages if the lawspeaker allows it.

I have a claim on land that became a village and now I can't expand it anymore, it's annoying.

[jordancoles]

Shoulda made a vclaim first

[loftar]

Shoulda made a vclaim first

It's also fairly ugly that one "has to" have a village just to have a somewhat secure claim. This is the reason why we made it so that villages can't revoke pclaims that are older than themselves. Which of course has its own set of problems. I'm not sure what an actually good solution would be.

[Thedrah]

could make older pclaims negatively affect vclaim's authority akin to a world resource

maybe have authority gained from pclaim directly substract from the village authority so larger claims would hurt more

[Granger]

could make older pclaims negatively affect vclaim's authority akin to a world resource

maybe have authority gained from pclaim directly substract from the village authority so larger claims would hurt more

This, as long as:
- it only applies to stake claims older than the village banner(s) used to claim over the personal land
- disables (non reactivating*) the moment the claim owner is oathed to the village (and never activates when the village is extended over a claim of a current member)
- while this flag is active it should still be possible to extend a personal claim (of a non-villager) that is claimed over by a village**
- it should not be possible for non-villagers to create a personal claim on village land, nor extend one into non-member village area

* needed to disable griefing through leaving a village in which the character has a personal claim.
** so hostile takeover of a personal claim by a village will get a bit harder

[Ants]

Shoulda made a vclaim first

It's also fairly ugly that one "has to" have a village just to have a somewhat secure claim. This is the reason why we made it so that villages can't revoke pclaims that are older than themselves. Which of course has its own set of problems. I'm not sure what an actually good solution would be.

Well, you could keep it so that villages can't destroy vclaims older than themselves but let village leaders decide whether or not the owner of the vclaim is allowed to expand it. It's kind of weird that lawspeakers have the option of letting villagers claim their own land but can't let others do the same.

whiteee.png

[MagicManICT]

I'm not sure what an actually good solution would be.

There is no "good" solution, just possible solutions that are less bad than others. As long as there are claims that have hierarchy over others, there will be no good solution.

My thought: if the pclaim existed first, let them manage it as if the village wasn't there. Sure, this could lead to some issues, but it might decrease the occurrence of "troll villages" to lock down someone's pclaim. Still means someone could box it in with other pclaims, but that exists now, and still means someone needs to build a "defensive village claim" to prevent that. The only issues I can think of that would be a problem from this are more player interaction type things, not game mechanics (maybe the coding aspect... not sure how it's all put together, and shoe-horning that in might require some massive changes.)

[jordancoles]

I'm not sure what an actually good solution would be.

There is no "good" solution, just possible solutions that are less bad than others. As long as there are claims that have hierarchy over others, there will be no good solution.

My thought: if the pclaim existed first, let them manage it as if the village wasn't there. Sure, this could lead to some issues, but it might decrease the occurrence of "troll villages" to lock down someone's pclaim. Still means someone could box it in with other pclaims, but that exists now, and still means someone needs to build a "defensive village claim" to prevent that. The only issues I can think of that would be a problem from this are more player interaction type things, not game mechanics (maybe the coding aspect... not sure how it's all put together, and shoe-horning that in might require some massive changes.)

No good. Someone could make a pclaim beside a village and if the village expands over it they could extend over the entire thing and since pclaim has more authority over vclaims they could likely set vandal perms and siege or just simply make it so the villagers need to leave scents to interact with their own stuff

[MagicManICT]

I wasn't thinking of permissions, just expansion rights, but you do bring up a good point that I completely overlooked. Maybe... village permissions > personal permissions if pclaim holder isn't member of village? That brings it right back around to the same problem, though, just by different means.

[Granger]

I thought I covered that in my post above: personal claim should not be able to extend onto non-member village land, unless the village claims over it first. This would solve the problem with generating build permissions (for invasion) on village area through a personal claim - unless the village 'invades' the personal claim beforehand, then all bets are off...

IMHO should a village see the need to expand over a foreign personal claim they should jump through the hoop of sieging it.