Few Ideas to Revamp Combat

[Pan_w_okularach]

Idea # 1. Increasing the role of IPs(Initiative Points).

So everybody who's seen a single pvp video knows how group fights are - chaos, swarms of people aimlessly running in circles, waiting for an opportunity to gang up on one target and take it down in one hit. Nobody wants to be the guy who's got surrounded and "focused", because even for a titan it can end badly real fast. Attacks are cheap and instant, and defensives can only save you when you're fighting 1-2 opponents simultaneously. So I've been thinking what could possibly break this dynamic, and I think I've come up with something that would not only encourage people to start fighting each other instead of the endless hit-and-run kiting that we usually see, but also will shake things up in turms of meta without almost any effort from the devs. Note that it will only work as a package so try to see the whole picture here before rejecting it.

⠀1. No more stacking IP's at a distance. During a fight, first thing you'll hear if you're in one of the teams' voice chat, is gonna be something like "get 6 coins on <opponent name>", then get 6 more IP's on some other guy and so on. Before the fight is even started everyone's already got all the IP's they'll need, and once it really starts and people are forced to use defensive moves most of which gain IP's for ALL of the opponents, you get more IP's that you can ever spend. It's common to have 50-60 IP's at a time vs opponents that are being targeted by your party, it's ridiculous. This makes IP's - the only mechanic that supposedly timegates and limits attack spam - completely meaningless.
⠀2. The lifespan of an IP should be limited, something like 4-5 seconds. Think about it, does it make sense that, let's say, you use Zig-Zag Ruse to defend from one opponent, then because of that 20 minutes later another opponent that might have not been anywhere near you that whole time still has an edge on you somehow? No it doesn't. IP's should work here and now, and if you missed the opportunity to utilize it in time then its gone. The other positive outcome of that change would be that the number of IP's one can possibly have will become limited. So attacks that require a lot of IP's can then be buffed significantly without the fear of making them overpowered.
⠀3. Defensive moves that gain IP's for opponents should only do so for those opponents who've actually hit you recently instead of the whole party. Make it, again, a 4-5 second window. So, for example, let's say opponent A hits you and then 2 seconds later opponent B hits you, if you press defensive right after the second hit - both opponents get ip's, and if you wait 2-3 second - only opponent B. Or alternatively, let's make defensive moves only gain IP's to enemies within a certain radius around the person using the ability. That way you can give stronger defensives bigger radius to balance them against weaker defensives.
⠀4. IP's should be gained primerely through weak close range attacks like Quick Barrage, while attacks with decent base opening and damage should all cost IP's. So all the spammy attacks like Punch, Uppercut, Flex and so on should be nerfed or reworked.
⠀5.(IMPORTANT)Generally buff all attacks, especially those with high IP cost. Anyone who tried 1v1'ing somebody with equal stats knows that it can take literally 30 minutes to win if the opponent doesn't want to fight back and only uses defensive moves. It's bad balance, especially in the light of my suggestions. If items 1, 2, 3, 4 are implemented and not 5, then no one on the battlfield is gonna be able to take down anybody.

In conclusion, what do I expect to happen if these changes are applied. Will it "nerf running"? No, nothing will stop people from running and as long as they are scared for their lives/gear they will continue trying to kite instead of fighting. But will it make engaging the enemy less dangerous? Yes. Now at least you will be able to get in, tank a few hits and not die instantly.

Idea #2. Weapon specific special abilities.

This one, admittedly, is inspired by Albion. What if each weapon had a unique special ability that could be used every <n> seconds? Not something dealing damage or increasing or decreasing openings, but something cool like a crowd control ability or something giving extra mobility. Can be something tame like Sledgehammer being able to stun for 0.5 second in a small area after 1 second cast. Or shield letting player charge forward a couple of tiles making you invulnerable to frontal attacks during the charge. Something along those line, would be cool.

[Ozzy123]

A lot of very good points in #1 idea, I don't think idea #2 could ever be implemented properly in Haven so it's a no from me but I agree that IP decaying would be a super cool change and not being able to stack IP from distance would make combat way more dynamic.

[SaltyCrate]

I see no apparent problems with the idea, though my experience in mass PvP is limited. So I would be willing to see this system being tested out at least.

[Winnfield]

I agree some of these ideas would make for more interesting and well thought out group combat but I feel like if you were to implement close range IP building AND limited IP lifespan, that would maybe be a little too much. I mean its hard enough trying to stack opening on any decent account when hes just spamming waterskin and running in one direction. If you added in the fact that each gap closer you had to build IP before opening your opponents defences I feel like that would perhaps be too much and you would almost never see kills occur. I feel like it would have to be one or the other.

[svino]

To remove this problem about 50 on the focused target; what about splitting up IPs into two different components?

One for attacking, and one for defending.

You can only get attacker IPs with the default attack moves like take aim or quick barrage or whatever.

You only get defender IPs every few seconds. Defender IPs can be used to use the old super defense moves like artful evasion and dash. (They do no longer give opponents attacker IPs)
You could even add expensive "offensive" defensive IP moves that can be used by attackers and defenders, like moving faster for a few seconds, or whatever.

[DDDsDD999]

I'd like it if with this you also didn't need to have everyone aggro'd to get the IP from them using defenses. e.g. if someone uses zig zag and you aggro them a second later, you'd have the IP on them, with it decaying at the same time as everyone who already had them aggro'd, because just trying to aggro everyone all the time in group fights is a dumb dynamic

[svino]

I'd like it if with this you also didn't need to have everyone aggro'd to get the IP from them using defenses. e.g. if someone uses zig zag and you aggro them a second later, you'd have the IP on them, with it decaying at the same time as everyone who already had them aggro'd, because just trying to aggro everyone all the time in group fights is a dumb dynamic

Yes, it's a really stupid mechanic. (This would be fixed by splitting IPs into offensive and defensive)

[rye130]

IP being more like a combo mechanic than a resource you have to stack aggro everyone and stack would be cool.

[wonder-ass]

+1 stacking ip is the worst part of combat.
now that ive put more thought in to this what stops someone from simply running away constantly when he has given the opponent too much ip to let it reset?
in group fights if someone had meda everyone simply avoided him until it was over.

[Melkior13]

now that ive put more thought in to this what stops someone from simply running away constantly when he has given the opponent too much ip to let it reset?

What if IP could be spent for a minor speed boost towards a target?