Zentetsuken wrote:Zampfeo wrote:Good post, but I agree with others that you shouldn't solve the lack of end game with infinite quality grind.
I've never been a faction player in Haven. I have however played with factions in other sandbox MMOs (Darkfall, Mortal, Eve). It's largely because I find the quality grind exhausting after a month or two. Whereas in those other games I've played there's generally a progression cap and the end game becomes the PVP content. You say that the quality grind ties into PVP because of better weaponry, but factions rarely have a reason to fight each other in the first place. The only somewhat fun PVP content in this game is sadistically messing with spruce caps.
If there were better realm and siege mechanics that promoted PVP, it would create more late-game content. Right now, there's no real incentive to fight over realm territory other than for clout and siege mechanics are so bad, sieging might as well not exist.
I'm not saying infinite quality grind shouldn't exist necessarily. The importance of industry is part of Haven's niche. If it's going to be this way, metal spiraling is the right way to do it because the act of a sprucecap selling iron is an organic catch-up mechanic. Ideally, we'd have a similar mechanic for each industry to allow plebs to trade their low-medium quality materials for high Q tools. And, as Maze pointed out, the barriers to this trade shouldn't be so high. To a sprucecap, trade stands are expensive and markets are unreachable.
PVP is not endgame in any good MMO I can think of, there are tons of people who play games like EVE for years and never once engage in PVP. EVE and MANY other MMOs can literally be super comparable to the endless sort of grind that haven is.
Fixing endgame with PVP in mind would be the biggest mistake the devs could make because they would be catering to such a tiny percent of the player population it would be a waste of time. PVP should not be considered the endgame in ANY way, just like in most other MMOs, PVP is 100% optional.
Do I agree that siege and pvp could use work? Sure.
Do I agree that there could be more incentive to fight over shit for the tiny percent of players who engage in realm-based battles? Sure.
That being said, I absolutely think haven endgame needs work but I think it should be MILES away from PVP in every imaginable way. Achievements, permanent trophies, leaderboards and anything that ultimately substantiates one's effort should be the endgame. Whether I am playing alone, with a couple friends or a realm village of 40 I think an endgame type of mechanic that could be enjoyed across the board of all types of players would be achievements. Everybody loves to brag, PVPers, hermits, casuals, you name it. Players can literally set their endgame - "this world I will aim for q500 metal and get the q500 metal badge." "This world I will aim for the kill 1000 foxes badge and get that permanent fox cape." etc.
Honestly if it feels like the game is steering away from catering to PVPers I think that is a blessing. There are about 750 people online right now as I type this and I would be incredibly surprised if 20 of them are actually interested in PVP. Haven endgame could be incredibly dynamic and accessible, contain many avenues for effort and time just as other MMOs do.
If you want to implement any type of competition or leaderboards you should get rid of bots and custom clients first. The sole thought that you might be spending dozens hours and still be behind because java junior dude wrote 30 lines of code is disheartening enough to deter people to even trying to compete.
