Two worlds of Haven

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Two worlds of Haven

Postby Mr_Bober » Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:01 am

The Idea
Have two worlds of Haven running at the same time: one would be long lasting, the other a short lasting one.

Benefits
  • The long lasting world would be similar to what we play right now. It could last indefinitely, similarly to Legacy, or have a lifespan closer to the last few worlds, lasting around a year or two (thoughts?). Gameplay wouldn't be affected, so anyone who enjoys the game as it is right now would play on this world and enjoy late game.
  • The short lasting world would only last a few months. Approximate reset dates would be known in advance. Its target would be all those players who enjoy early game only, the same who usually quit current worlds after a few months or after a big setback (death/raid). Some players might use it as a test server, or maybe try to "speed run" through it to see how far they can get in a short time. More importantly, this world could be a great place for Devs to test their updates, especially bigger updates: anything that might have unwanted consequences, requires a reset, or might break the game.

Population
To those who fear this would split the player base, I don't think it will. Every time a reset happen we see a huge increase in active players; after just a couple of months, the numbers drop dramatically and keep dropping after a few more months. Those who remain longer have no reason to play a quick-resetting world. Those who quit early would have no reason to play on the long lasting one. The only difference might be when the long-lasting world resets, which might not get as many fresh players for the first few weeks as it does right now.

As for how technically or economically "doable" this is, it's for the Devs to decide. I think more resets would also mean more earnings, but that's impossible to say for sure and it's not for us to debate.

I'd like to hear from the community, and maybe the Devs, what pros and cons you can see that make this a good or a bad idea in your opinion.

Note: This might potentially mean the end of the Legacy server, but considering there's somewhere between 1 and 10 people playing it, it's probably worth losing it.
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Re: Two worlds of Haven

Postby MagicManICT » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:51 am

Pretty sure it's been discussed before, and pretty sure it'd be the death of the game. (/me points at Salem after the server split.)
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Re: Two worlds of Haven

Postby Fostik » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:31 am

MagicManICT wrote:Pretty sure it's been discussed before, and pretty sure it'd be the death of the game. (/me points at Salem after the server split.)


Not sure that this feature was considered bad in salem, and caused it's death. There was a lot more other problems.
Both temporary and persistent worlds has pros and cons, I think creating persistent world and launch temporary world time to time worth considering.
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Re: Two worlds of Haven

Postby SavageFox » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:45 am

MagicManICT wrote:Pretty sure it's been discussed before, and pretty sure it'd be the death of the game. (/me points at Salem after the server split.)


Salem died cuz the people that took over we're incompetent and they also did patches it broke the balance of the game

having more worlds running at the same time will not kill the game but before we do that we need to make sure there's enough content for 6 months and to be honest Haven doesn't have that at the moment it's too easy to progress I'm still enjoying the game I'm probably going to stick around till the end of the world but I could see people exiting in Mass already

I blame it on the progression being too well optimized by the community tasks that used to take months now take weeks

metal quality snowballs out of control fast

there should be a tier unlock system in the game

Tier 1 would require nothing will cap you to 50 quality Tier 2 would require a special item to be built next to the workstations for that profession which would allow you to get up to q100 to unlock the next tier for smithing from 1 to 2 you would need all of the Tier 1 ore is from level 1 and you would need bars made from those ores including bronze to unlock quality 100 potential the quality of the crafting Stations don't matter if you don't have that item you can't go beyond 50
but if you do have that item it does matter
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Re: Two worlds of Haven

Postby Mr_Bober » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:39 pm

MagicManICT wrote:pretty sure it'd be the death of the game. (/me points at Salem after the server split.)


How so? I've always seen Salem's split as a good feature, and as other pointed out already it's far from being the reason the game failed.

SavageFox wrote:having more worlds running at the same time will not kill the game but before we do that we need to make sure there's enough content for 6 months and to be honest Haven doesn't have that at the moment it's too easy to progress I'm still enjoying the game I'm probably going to stick around till the end of the world but I could see people exiting in Mass already


I agree, Haven needs things to slow down a bit. I have a few ideas on things that might help with it, but that's for another thread.

Even in its current state, I think short term worlds could work. Right now a 3-4 months server would probably be enough, considering most stuff is unlocked within the first month. It could be easily tested though, starting with a certain length and then adding or removing weeks from the next reset as the population changes.
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Re: Two worlds of Haven

Postby MagicManICT » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Mr_Bober wrote:
MagicManICT wrote:pretty sure it'd be the death of the game. (/me points at Salem after the server split.)


How so? I've always seen Salem's split as a good feature, and as other pointed out already it's far from being the reason the game failed.

it's been some years, but pretty sure the total player population dropped very significantly immediately afterward without any other major changes to the game. I definitely overstated it, but it was the start of the downward spiral. All other problems could have been fixed with time.

FWIW, I know of a couple other smaller games that went this route (split servers when the population was barely large enough to support one community), and because there were fewer people to interact with overall, the games shrank significantly, even after the mistake was remedied. People will put up with a lot of issues because they've invested their time and energy into a project, but once they have an excuse to leave, whether by immediate decision of "nope, this is the line" or slow death by boredom (and I'm definitely oversimplifying that), they tend not to come back, or when they do, it's many years later.
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Re: Two worlds of Haven

Postby Mr_Bober » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:35 pm

MagicManICT wrote:FWIW, I know of a couple other smaller games that went this route (split servers when the population was barely large enough to support one community), and because there were fewer people to interact with overall, the games shrank significantly, even after the mistake was remedied. People will put up with a lot of issues because they've invested their time and energy into a project, but once they have an excuse to leave, whether by immediate decision of "nope, this is the line" or slow death by boredom (and I'm definitely oversimplifying that), they tend not to come back, or when they do, it's many years later.


I don't know, I feel like Haven already has the population split into two groups. Every time the world reset we have hundreds of players for the first couple of months, then we see a huge sudden drop. Those should be the target for the short lasting world.

I think it's worth exploring the idea further, and possibly give it a try. Doing it once won't kill the game...
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Re: Two worlds of Haven

Postby wonder-ass » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:36 pm

they want a persistent world yet they put no effort in to creating mechanics for one, and object controlled objects wont help with this at all. if they really wanted a persistent world they'd have made a system that allows for someone that got completely wiped to come back in to the game seamless yet this is literally impossible. everything is too focused on your main village if you lose this main village its game over go next wipe.
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