Limited capacity of wells

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Limited capacity of wells

Postby Agrik » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:45 am

Sorry, I didn't have much time to answer earlier.

Zbyx wrote:No its not. Not only you need to find a good spot (and if its near high Q water then probably defend it too) , and then to grind a lot of exp to dig it deeper (which is a lot of work just these two)
Ah, I see. I meant "easy" in the sense of complexity, not in the sense of a time spent on a "work" (which, for a game, is a pointless part). So the most complex thing here is to find a spot, which is not much: you just need to find it once and then have an endless and unlimited inflow of resource.

Then to defend, well, I agree, It could be hard. But it's not that hard to defend 1 point in comparison to the fact that it gives an endless and unlimited resource.

Zbyx wrote:but also bringing a ton of it to your base every week or so is boring af.
Well, if an activity is boring, it is too simple.

Zbyx wrote:It's only whole factions usually which have good Q water well, and if you make it even more limited then everyone else will get a short end of the stick.
So I seek a way to make it harder for those who need large amounts of water of highest Q. If somebody gets the water only because factions allow it, well, he already has a short end of the stick. I'm afraid, a freely given resource means it (or its Q) isn't significant for the real competition...

Fostik wrote:Limited capacity well is death to public wells - no one will put efforts in well and make it public to see it emptied by others most of the time.
You can make two wells some distance apart, so they would have partially different source areas (think of partially overlapping circles), and it would be impossible to empty one by taking from another. Yes, it'd require to dig a second well, but you'd like to have additional one anyways, as the first one is not unlimited.

And I wouldn't say "no one", but "those who really want to make a well for others".

Fostik wrote:Death of public wells will create a titanic size gap between high scale fractions and other players.
I wonder if current absence of such a gap is merely an illusion. A person who doesn't have control over his own access to a relatively competitive-Q water (I doubt that really competitive Q would be in a free access, but won't insist), but relies on a mercy of public well owners, in my eyes such a person has a large gap between himself and "high scale fractions". Perhaps an immeasurable one.

I have a feeling that the main reason the gap isn't noticed is because said factions see that Q and those people as insignificant.

Fostik wrote:Inability to get high quality water for 95% of players will force players to quit new worlds much faster.
What exactly is "high quality water", isn't it relative? But what is more important, what do those 95% need such "high quality water" for? Do they really try to compete with top factions, while not having at least a village with a "personal" high water supply?

Fostik wrote:Nothing good for game in this idea at all.
I agree that there are downsides, but their existence isn't enough to state an absence of upsides.

Massa wrote:Suffocating water supply just harms the newbies and smaller players in the game. The big fat guys will always have all the water they need, because they're the ones who make and grind the wells.
I think I see where the discussion goes to. The top players are said to be invincible, so one shouldn't bother to fix anything related to them? :?

Massa wrote:Allowing public access on a controlled and managed claim with a limitless supply of water is good for the game.
Opening access for everyone to have better resources for trees, food, and anything else that takes water benefits everyone and costs no one.
Sounds somewhat groundless. A game is a process, how exactly a free and limitless supply of a resource is inherently good for it? IMHO, it may be good or bad depending on what game the devs try to make, but it's for the devs to decide.

Massa wrote:but having good water takes a lot of pressure off of very specific points that can be a little rough.
Well, a game may have difficult elements. It doesn't look like making everything in the game easy, unlimited, and accessible in one click would make a good gameplay, does it? So the question is why such points shouldn't be rough, and why they should be "not-rough" exactly this way.

Apocoreo wrote:Better to keep them public. This suggest puts yet more power in the hands of those that already have the power to defend their territory and attack others.
Are you sure it's the "power", not the "incentive"? With an unlimited inflow, those who already have the power just don't need to bother with others. Limit on the supply makes them closer IMO, and that'd be an incentive to attack, but not the power.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but now it looks like people don't want to make the gap lesser, being afraid that top players would notice them and compete with them. :?

Apocoreo wrote:The purpose of the story was to describe my in-game experience with this kind of thing. Wells are hard to increase the q of, making high q water even harder to get means more competition to hold wells, which would be good if the game wasn't so imbalanced. I would no longer be willing to try to take other's wells as it would have far more risk of alerting a big boi, or be a time-consuming, long term war.
Oh. The big boys hold the game hostage. :(
I agree on the game being imbalanced, but I think it's not a good basis for evaluation of changes.
Agrik
 
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