A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby SnuggleSnail » Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:48 am

Goals
  • Prevent malicious figures from griefing the entire world by removing realm buffs
  • Give plebs a greater active role in building & maintaining realms
  • Retain the trade value of guano, silver & notes
  • Remove a lot of the tediousness of building realm buffs for rulers
  • Prevent rulers from intentionally not claiming tiles
  • Make it possible for small people who are persistent to move realm borders even when opposed
  • Prevent a decline or spike in player population from drastically affecting realms // authority
  • Make moving realm borders significantly faster
  • Make the rulers quitting not a death sentence for the realm
Realm Buffs
  • Authority drain from Menhirs and Grotesques removed.
  • Menhirs and Grotesques no longer need to be built on realm claims, and do not require realm perms to build.
  • Upon interacting with a Menhir or Grotesque while it is covered by a realm you can choose to make it contribute to a buff of your choice. This would be an act of vandalism for claim permission purposes.
  • Importantly "none" should be a choice if the plebs want to protest without destroying their shit.
  • Authority is no longer generated by players, but instead generated by Menhirs, Grotesques, and maybe(?) thingwalls.
  • Menhirs/Grotesques that aren't actively providing a buff either don't generate authority, or generate a relatively small amount of authority so people can still haha-number-go-up their authority by spamming larp Menhirs.
  • Reaching zero authority no longer prevents buffs from buffing.
  • Marriage of the sea buff no longer affects knarr/snekkja speed to prevent fuckery slowing people in chases.
  • Changing which buff your Menhir or Grotesque contributes to should take at minimum 24 hours, and its contribution to the previous buff should remain during the time its changing.
  • If a Menhir or Grotesque is covered by a new realm it continues buffing the new realm as it did the last unless its owner changes something.
  • Menhirs and Grotesques should be assigned a random buff when freshly built, or when covered by a new realm if their previous buff was already maxed just to 'tard proof things a bit.
  • Menhirs or Grotesques being destroyed should be broadcast in realm PUBLIC chat, including village name(if it's in one), the region name, if they're oathed to a realm, and the skull name of the person who did it. Just for drama, no balance reasons.
  • Maybe add some flat buffs to, like, int/perc/will/mining/survival effectiveness to existing buff? If it's late world giving actual new players a leg up seems good.

Thingwalls & Expansion
  • War flags no longer require being in a realm at all to build, and the builder can choose to build the flag to expand any of the neighboring realms to the attacked tile.
  • The cooldown of building a war flag is removed.
  • A challenge cooldown of a day or so tied to the challenger's village would be ideal, but I don't think you can differentiate dummy villages so it seems like a waste of time. No or limited cooldowns would be fine as long as the character doing the challenging is at risk and not a vandal alt.
  • A one day "protection" period is added to a any freshly claimed thingwall, preventing new war flags from being built.
  • A newly claimed thingwall cannot be used to further extent the realm during the "protection" period. Similar rules to building village banners.
  • War flag material cost reduced to be trivial. Maybe five ropes and some blocks.
  • War flags should have like 10 soak minimum to prevent fresh alts from slapping flags.
  • The war flag retains the same grace-no-bashy period dealy as now, except the grace period is only 10-20 minutes, even with guarded marches, and the active period is 10 minutes.
  • The warflag disintegrates if the person who built it leaves the region, or some other mechanic to prevent people from just hail-mary building flags 24/7.
  • War flags can only be built by characters with developed skulls, or ideally the top 20-30% strongest characters if you wanna make a cool needlessly complex function. Enough to exclude vandal alts, but be inclusive for average players, ideally.
  • Everybody inside BOTH the attacking and defending realm's borders is alerted whenever a war flag is built, including the thingwall name, and MAYBE the skull name of the person who built it.
  • Building a war flag is ALWAYS leave a scent of some kind.
  • The realm buffs icon displays how many thingwalls are in the realm.
  • No claims OR building within render distance of thingwalls to prevent autism.
  • Let people build milestones & roads like within render, tho.
  • Move the thingwalls away from water to prevent gay ass cancer boat fights. Give them a road that (like paved path, not milestones) that extends from the thingwall to the nearest water. The road has the same claim & building protection as the thingwall.
  • IDEALLY a mechanic added to find thingwalls easily, like them appearing on the map whenever you enter their region, or a quest given to see it with an arrow whenever that quest is selected.
  • ALTERNATIVELY:
    This would be kinda hard to balance and I can see there being potential flaws for KINDA minor gains, but point defense fights suck dick in haven. To challenge a realm you wear a banner from the realm that you're challenging it with. If you challenge the thingwall and remain there for 10-20 minutes without the enemy realm coming with a bannerboi you win the thingwall. If an enemy bannerboi comes whichever gets downed first loses, and it doesn't end until somebody gets dunked. Only people with realm perms can be defensive bannerbois, but anybody can be the attacking bannerboi similar to above war flag rules. Bannerbois lose if they leave the thingwall's region. Bannerbois cannot enter a horse/cave/minehole/snekkja/house/dungeon/claim. While there's an active challenge claims cannot be moved. Prolly still abuseable

Ruling
  • Coronation stone costs & requirements remain the same.
  • LET THE RULERS DECIDE THEIR OWN NAMES & FLAGS WHAT THE FUCK JORBTAR. IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT, THEY CAN MAKE THEIR OWN REALM TO RIVAL YOURS. DRAMA AND FREE PLAYER EXPRESSION IN A SANDBOX ARE KINDOF A BIG DEAL???
  • A crown for the ruler, and w/e mark depending on their perms for people actually oathed to the realm in realm chat.
  • When the realm is challenged oathed people with a developed skull, or similar reqs as previously mentioned can port DIRECTLY to the challenged thingwall with no TW cost. If you don't move thingwalls away from water as previously mentioned let specifically oathed people port there with a boat, instead of on foot. If boat port, add some conditions to make it less abuseable like the boat port can only happen once the war flag is actually active.
  • Authority is nothing but from the coffer/state funeral rewards for the rule/s.
  • The ability to ignore people in chat client side for everybody. Wtf how is this not a thing yet?
  • Give some reward to people who actually expand the realm by owning war flags that win challenges. EX: Experience, the ability to use state funeral for a day, an icon next to their name for a day OR tiered icons depending on how many challenges they've won, free thingwall travel inside the realm for a day, some cool gilding leafs/rocks akin to from questing. Maybe even make "win a realm challenge" a high level quest from trees that give dank rewards.
  • If the coronation stone gets DUNKED everybody banned from the chat is unbanned. Everybody oathed to the realm is removed. Buffs remain.
  • The person who destroyed the coronation stone gets to choose between absorbing the realm into an existing realm that has existed for at least a week OR rebuilding the coronation stone elsewhere and crowning themselves ruler.
  • If the realm is not absorbed, or a new coronation stone isn't built within one day any random smuck in the realm can do it. First come, first serve.
  • If you don't do the absorb thing, only stealing the coronation stone let the name be changed during this process.
  • I can't think of a way to stop people from just breaking their coronation stone and moving it during a siege, but if there's something it'd be cool. Even if it's something drastic, like the ruler has to be a REALLY GOOD character relative to others in the world and if just fuggen dies whenever the coronation stone breaks.
  • The coronation stone is made trivial to find somehow. Maybe hearth magic akin to the shooting star tracking hearth magic for the coronation stone of the realm you're currently in.
  • When a coronation stone is destroyed its announced in public realm chat, maybe including the skull name of the person who dunked it, and what realm they're from.

P.S: Remove realms they're fuggen GARBAGE
Last edited by SnuggleSnail on Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:13 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby strpk0 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:39 am

+1, I like how this makes realm development involve the regular people more instead of just the realm owners and whatever mega zerg faction they're associated to.
Plus, the stuff with people being able to contribute and pick their own buffs (or not at all, incase of protesting) is nice, removes the ability for less than smart realm leaders from prioritizing stupid buffs and everyone else just having to live with their decisions.

Hope this gets a serious read from the devs, smaller scale PvP that can involve the less tryhard population sounds fun, and IMO realms should have been a collaborative effort from the start, not just realm owners having to do all the work while 99% of the playerbase is at the mercy of them.
Last edited by strpk0 on Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby mvgulik » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:56 am

* Sees a lot of text *
* Does a initial fast scan *
* Comes across "P.S: Remove realms they're fuggen GARBAGE" *
Aha, the real goal (as usual). Good, no need to actually read the rest. Probably just GARBAGE in favor of that real goal.
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby Ceigo » Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:21 am

+1

More in hands of plebs = more player interactivity.
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby wonder-ass » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:42 pm

A not shit realm system pog
see homo sexuality trending,. do not do that.
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby Southpaw » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:15 pm

mvgulik wrote:* Sees a lot of text *
* Does a initial fast scan *
* Comes across "P.S: Remove realms they're fuggen GARBAGE" *
Aha, the real goal (as usual). Good, no need to actually read the rest. Probably just GARBAGE in favor of that real goal.

what a fucking smoothbrain dismissive ass take on a genuinely well-written thread by snail of all people, god forbid quips include personal opinions in 2021, the year of our lord
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby pawnchito » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:04 am

I like the Realm Buffs portion. It would be nice to be able to contribute and have some control over having realm buffs. Even as a lowly scrub the materials for Grotesue Idols and such are somewhat trivial to accumulate passively. Like I could probably make several right now and I almost actively go out of my way not to collect them. So my concern is do you think we would be overrun very quickly or that the spawn rate or something would need to compensate?

The Thingwalls & Expansion portion is mostly pvp sounding so I'll stay out although the ability to make a flag in the name of a realm sounds like heaven. It is the worst to get singled out and excluded all the having to quest in the realm that excluded you.

"Authority is nothing but from the coffer/state funeral rewards for the rule/s." This part is interesting because part of the allure for me to start a realm is access to a flipping good well. I dont understand the second point of that section, do you mean all of the realm names are preset? Probably trying to avoid some historically cringe names.

Overall sounds like some decent polishing to realms. Realms are good yes, but the could be better.
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby SnuggleSnail » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:28 am

I think the price of guano would be lower because the rich people who usually buy it would be more inclined to slowly let the plebs fill out the less important buffs, but I'm no economist. I can say for sure more guano overall would get used in long worlds, because the plebs who did build grotesques would slowly quit or get raided and new plebs would replace them.

The naming stuff is mostly just LARP, but renaming a big realm is UNIRONICALLY a big potential source of conflict. Jorbtar have historically not been super okay with meme-y realm names because of immersion. It's understandable, but PVP orientated things just aren't LARPy, and being able to cause conflict by mocking people with realm names or the like after you dunk them seems like A LOT of fun.
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby pawnchito » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:38 am

You could name villages to tease and agitate each other. I just mean I think you underestimate how many of those babies would get thrown up, the buffs are just as neat for the rando as they are for the faction lord.

Honestly the more I think about it the more I really wish devs would do something to allow us to move and expand realms how you described. It even makes sense lore wise, peasant and serfs oathing their own allegiance or claiming things in the name of the realm. Hell we already get taxed with experience.
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Re: A realm fix that isn't just deleting them

Postby SnuggleSnail » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:22 am

I think there would start out being a lot of realms, but due to the relative ease/speed of expansion most of them would get bullied away pretty quickly, or concede to get better buffs for themselves. Unlike now, however, established realms would actually be in danger of getting dunked and maybe having a comeback later when they're stronger/more motivated relative to other groups.

The main goal here is to make it nigh impossible to grief by turning off buffs, or denying buffs by intentionally not claiming tiles. Plus, any menhirs/grotesques build inside somebody's base are /guaranteed/ to always to benefit them, compared to donating guano to a factionboi and hoping they don't quit, turn them off or get out-realmed leaving you SOL.

Rewarding people for challenging would be an incentive for plebs to actually put their character at risk while contributing to their preferred realm. Maybe if the rewards are good enough they'll be happy with getting them even if they get KOed by a PVPsperg they had no chance against. Maybe they'll do it enough to be motivated to git gud
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