Drink button essay: standalone edition

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Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby vatas » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:27 pm

PREFACE
This thing was born from initial project idea to make a list of all the features PvP client needs, but decided that going full "in the weeds" on the most important one is the clearest communication I can give to Jorbtar.

Disclaimer: due to following issues, I don't know how to PvP (at least nowhere on the level that people like Snail are able to) despite playing this game for 10 years:

SnuggleSnail wrote:[*] Lack of experience, and no reasonable way to gain it without basically asking somebody to mentor you
[*] Lack of guides / competent wiki
[*] Nothing to push average players into minor conflicts where they can gain experience / confidence
[*] No PVE encounters or similar that give experience that could transfer to PVP


I may miss something important or make other mistakes. I will mark parts where I particularly end up speculating/assuming with red.

THE DEFAULT CLIENT
I doubt anyone taking PvP seriously will ever PvP with default client. However giving it a PvP feature, as long as implemented in even somewhat acceptable way, means less work for anyone aiming to create a PvP viable client. Assuming the feature is does it's job without being obvious downgrade from custom clients, it will also be standardized. Similar to when Jorb relented and added Ctrl+G to the default client.

MAIN TEXT

Asking for this feature is quickly establishing itself as a meme, and while you can bind waterskins to the default hotbar, there are multiple issues with that compared to having "autodrink" -script:
-Amount of waterskins (or other water vessels) you can bind to default hotbar is limited, and you presumably want to bind other stuff into it as well.
-As waterskins run out of water, the button to press for drinking changes.

"Wait, why is drinking water such a big deal in PvP?"
-PvP meta is that one of the sides decides they are the "Team with disadvantage" and starts running away from the other team(s). Ultimately the goal is to drop aggro and Hearth back home, reach a safepali, or rendezvous with reinforcements.
-Running consumes stamina.
-Stamina can be recovered by drinking water, at the cost of Energy.

This means that main deciding factor in a fight is often simply which side has more water (water quality does act as force multiplier.) Autodrink script helps you to make the most effective sips when you are at the stamina range between "too low to run" and "below 90%" (drinking with more than 90% stamina wastes both water and energy as sip is always 0.05 liters and you don't get Energy discount from stamina overflow.

PvP fight has enough stuff going on that you really don't want to be forced to replace keybinds to empty waterskins with ones to filled one, all the while having to keep track which keybinds will actually make you drink.

Imagine if instead of simple WASD movement, Counter-Strike would require you to play a minigame of moving one foot and then another in sync. Of course you can argue that it would raise the game's skill ceiling. However the actual main method to win the match - shooting enemy players with a gun so that they die - already has a rather high skill ceiling. The minigame would just make the game harder to get into and learn properly.
Last edited by vatas on Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:17 am, edited 4 times in total.
The most actively maintained Haven and Hearth Wiki (Not guaranteed to be up-to-date with all w14 changes.)

Basic Claim Safety (And what you’re doing wrong) (I recommend you read it in it's entirety, but TL:;DR: Build a Palisade.)

Combat Guide (Overview, PVE, PVP) (Tells you how to try and escape, and make it less likely to die when caught.)
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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby pawnchito » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:32 pm

lmao...

+1
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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby noindyfikator » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:32 pm

reserved for advertisment, pm me for offers

Many players dream about drink button, as you can see there are poems about it. Drink button..
The sad part of this story is they will never implement it. We get 1 useless patch a month. Implementing such advanced feature would destroy this game.
W3 - W10 - Hermit / small plots with spruces
W11 - The Friend Zone
W12 - KoA aka Kingdom of Ashes
W13 - Monke
W14 - Alpaca Farm aka Animal Planet
W15 - Whatever Bay - The Greatest Siege Defense Victory in Haven History - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhyUveSeZ0Q
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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby DDDsDD999 » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:47 pm

These chat bots are putting in a lot of effort now. I recommend the mods delete this thread before the op is full of advertisement links.
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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby _Scipio » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:56 pm

Maybe have some combat moves that reduce movement speed by 30% or something so that fights can feel more like fights instead of cross country running simulators.
mizdirector89 wrote: No, their version of 'interrogating' was just saying 'speak up, you better talk' over and over while they killed our characters.

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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:06 pm

personally I think anybody without a CS degree deserves to die
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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby sMartins » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:34 pm

I'm not against it, in fact, if you guys want it I don't see any big problem in adding it, maybe Jorbtar sees some, I don't know.
My question, I ask honestly, but why do you think the game, or game development has to be pvp-centric?
There are many other areas that need attention, no less than pvp, so why pvp specifically? And not pve, not better map generation, cliffs, maybe add waterfalls, improve rendering, see the sky? Why, always and only, pvp specifically?
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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby noindyfikator » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:38 pm

U all act like there will be any further development for this game. Clueless community. Enjoy your 1 month patch with development time of 1 hour. Sadly but it looks like abbadoned project
W3 - W10 - Hermit / small plots with spruces
W11 - The Friend Zone
W12 - KoA aka Kingdom of Ashes
W13 - Monke
W14 - Alpaca Farm aka Animal Planet
W15 - Whatever Bay - The Greatest Siege Defense Victory in Haven History - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhyUveSeZ0Q
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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby bumfrog » Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:20 pm

+1

Unfortunately, Actionable Development Suggestions have to be less than one sentence long. Can’t be implemented if the devs can’t read them, I’m afraid. Consider aimimg for next year!
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Re: Drink button essay: standalone edition

Postby ctopolon4 » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:11 pm

after drink button here needs drinking & eating machine to not spend 2k clicks for that shit every day... also 2h chasing (without ability hide trees & pixel hunting for rabbits/bugs for boost) is not best pvp solution same as 7d sieges... and stamina consumption/gain is ridiculous if you not sitting on chair you have to press drink button all time (5s drinking for 3s boost\work)
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