Boting prohibited or default client bot

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Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby yym331 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:15 am

... so what's your take on them, then?
Our philosophy has been, and remains, that we – rather than spend our time fighting losing battles – should focus on building a better game with fewer incentives to bot. We try to take botting as a sign of a broken game mechanic, rather than as a sign of broken players


I have a feeling the above references no longer apply.

Set macro/script/NPC as default client
Or prohibit all
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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby Nightdawg » Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:25 pm

Problem is that when you don't play the game but have full control over the mechanics you add, you end up adding annoying extra tedium:
In your head, that extra tedium is done to prevent bots from being as effective.
In reality, the tedium itself is the reason bots are used in the first place. Adding extra tedium is like trying to extinguish a fire by throwing a gascan on it. It fucking explodes and you're only incentivising more people to do more botting. I'm working on making a bot that will refuel my steel for 48 hours so I don't have to wake up in the middle of the night during workdays to do a meaningless retarded skill-less tedious activity. Haha, FUN MECHANIC.

The philosophy is good, but the approach is retarded. And this discussion could go on for months, if not years.
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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby vatas » Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:09 pm

My personal favorite example is still the cheese thing.

Jorb apparently found out that bots for moving cheese exists. There is some genuine balance concern here; this enables people to make much larger cheese setups than they would without bots.

However, the solution he came up with was absolutely horrible: giving cheese racks quality that softcaps the cheese.

This is one of those things that make sense if you don't actually play the game. The evil cheating botters simply grabbed some of the older logs (they usually have so much of them that they've repeatedly asked Jorb to just let them burn without any other benefit than getting rid of the log) and had a bot build a new set of cheese racks every once and while. Meanwhile casual non-botters were simply hit with significantly more tedium if they wanted to create on-par cheese setup.

Candidate for most infamous "botting tryhard griefer", SnuggleSnail, claims that "building cheese racks" was the first thing he ever seriously botted. Literal villain origin story: "didn't want to endure the tedium brought on by a poorly thought-out anti-botting measure, so embraced botting." While this may be some sort of elaborate troll (or to use current hot lingo, a psyop), I find it perfectly believable.
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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby yym331 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:07 pm

Nightdawg wrote:Problem is that when you don't play the game but have full control over the mechanics you add, you end up adding annoying extra tedium:
In your head, that extra tedium is done to prevent bots from being as effective.
In reality, the tedium itself is the reason bots are used in the first place. Adding extra tedium is like trying to extinguish a fire by throwing a gascan on it. It fucking explodes and you're only incentivising more people to do more botting. I'm working on making a bot that will refuel my steel for 48 hours so I don't have to wake up in the middle of the night during workdays to do a meaningless retarded skill-less tedious activity. Haha, FUN MECHANIC.

The philosophy is good, but the approach is retarded. And this discussion could go on for months, if not years.


I agree with your thoughts.
But the problem is the possibility that new players will quit this game when they learn of the ruthless botting by others.
So it is also a suggestion to add an automatic feature to the default client
HnH rabid players and forum players basically use custom client, but normal players only use default client
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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby Nightdawg » Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:15 pm

yym331 wrote:I agree with your thoughts.
But the problem is the possibility that new players will quit this game when they learn of the ruthless botting by others.
So it is also a suggestion to add an automatic feature to the default client
HnH rabid players and forum players basically use custom client, but normal players only use default client


Yeah, I'm just saying that this would just be a band-aid.
The root cause is far deeper
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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby Clemins » Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:20 pm

yym331 wrote:But the problem is the possibility that new players will quit this game when they learn of the ruthless botting by others.
So it is also a suggestion to add an automatic feature to the default client

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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby vatas » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:07 am

Tangentially related: "ash from firebrands" had been a thing since Hafen launch in 2015 but few months after bot for it became publicly available, it got nerfed.
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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:23 am

Jorbtar hates fun and emergent game play. You should really never let him know what fun thing you're doing or he'll surely break it.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=42482 I think this thread is the best example of it.

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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby vatas » Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:27 am

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Re: Boting prohibited or default client bot

Postby Clemins » Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:29 pm

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