Base stat + Equipment + Buffs

[vatas]

Would imply that you could triple, rather tan double, characters base stat. However A) Buffs would presumably be harder to acquire than Equipment bonuses B) one of the primary aims of this changes was originally to curb stuff like being able to make a miner out of a fresh character by equipping it with Strength gear (you would now be, at least theoretically, able to reach 30 instead of 20 STR.)

"Buffs" would include primarily Credos, which interfere with normal character progression when they give flat stat bonus and confuse newbies. Other stuff would mainly include Wounds and Alcohol/Narcotic effects.

Least invasive way to implement this would actually be during a reset, since lot of people have had to raise, for example. their Masonry while bearing the burden of the bonus amount gained from Quarryman and Miner.

Going "no refunds" would still produce beneficial effects to these people: they still have same amount of Masonry as before the hypothetical patch, but now the cost of raising masonry is also lower.

[Sevenless]

I don't think we need even more stat bloat, it's already pretty nuts.

If anything I want credo effects to be buffs instead of baseline bonuses.

[vatas]

I don't think we need even more stat bloat, it's already pretty nuts.

As long as you don't go overboard with the amount of buffs you introduce (and make them strong but tedious to acquire), this shouldn't be a problem.

If anything I want credo effects to be buffs instead of baseline bonuses.

Admittedly, a far more elegant simple solution to the root issue.

[vatas]

Pros:
1) Less confusion when a character gains/loses Credo bonus to Attribute/Ability.
2) No need to minmax when exactly a character gains the Credo Bonus (raise Farming before Farmer finisher, delay Forager until you raise non-PER stats.)

Cons:
1) if your base stat is low enough, you don't gain full Credo buff (imho not too unreasonable, you'd need to raise said stats anyway with current system.)
2) Hypothetically, developers have to be bit more careful whenever adding buffs, otherwise they might create a situation where the "ability to tolerate buff tedium" -becomes one of the deciding factors of faction fights.

I have to admit that one of my least favourite parts about World of Warcraft Classic is the need to stack 10 consumables and 5 worldbuffs to raid "optimally." However if enough stuff like that added into Haven would probably be a problem even with the current system - I assume factionbois can easily get into a situation where (without excessively multigilded equipment) you can't double your base STR/AGI/UA/Melee = same incentive to do buff tedium if it was an option.