winter sux 4 combat

[SnuggleSnail]

Icky bits:

• Fighting on all vehicles is generally disliked, and winter is just different vehicles combat simulator
• Some vehicles are better in some places, some in others, and it's very annoying that there's a huge advantage to have a big coordinated team to exploit each vehicle in its niche // readas: I can't play the game if I don't have 10 friends online or if I'm not in a very strong group
• It's (situationally) practically impossible to escape - there are no speedbuffs, and no critters to click because that doesn't work with vehicles
• AND ALSO the sleigh is insanely fast, but you can't rly fight on it, so it can be used to ferry people ahead of you if you ever manage to make a gap over and over so either you get to a safepali, win the fight, or die (and I mean DIE because you're gonna fucking starve to death or be forced to stop move and get Mrage max cleaved because there is no escape)
• It is also, funnily enough, INSANELY easy to escape in winter because you can just go to the biome the vehicle you're using is faster in and leave if the enemy doesn't have that vehicle
• Skiis take INSANE amounts of stamina/energy to maintain 4th speed on, meaning you L I T E R A L L Y need to fill your entire inventory with shit because this is the rare situation where the hermits pretending they know what they're talking about are right about jugs out the ass and a full cb of food in your inventory or you die. Like, if winter combat were something people actually did (they just don't because it's so bad) I'd say nomad and gilded pockets are nearly mandatory unless you expect to hard win every fight
• The mini-map FUCKING SUCKS for winter and there's so much room for client advantage. Main issue is you rly need to be able to see where you're running. There are lots of situations where you have to change direction if the lake ahead is frozen, but it'd be better to cross it if it's not or similar. Knowing where there is/isn't snow/ice is a BIG deal. Client handles this very badly
• It is also just generally very annoying to have snowy spots from last winter on my map but that's not rly a PVP complaint

^^^^^^^^ These are not debatable. No reasonable person who knows what they're talking about disagree. I will not argue with retards.

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓ some of these are probably retarded and reasonable people might disagree

solutions

• Make skiis not a vehicle. When equipped have them just change your animation and base movement speed on snow/ice. Clicking kritters/speedbuffs should still work. (don't make us unequip them to walk normally on forest btw)
• Make skiis the same speed sleds on ice (but sleds stay slower on snow) so your team doesn't need to coordinate vehicles so much / people don't just escape if sled vs. ski or vice versa
• Reduce the stamina consumption of 4th speed skiis to about == 3rd speed running in a forest
• Make skiis not set you back to 3rd speed if you go below 50% stamina
• Make reindeer rawhide-able (this is not nearly enough of a nerf for sleighs but I can't think of anything else)
• Maybe make reindeer not able to cross snow thickets? Maybe change the freeze to leave most rivers with 1 tile of winter still in the center to stop them going anywhere they please?
• Add an overlay for where ice/snow is that can be toggled at any time to the map. If toggled off regular summer map, if toggled on winter map. Maybe delete the winter map every winter if you can't/won't overlay everything you haven't seen for LARP/technical reasons, but PREFERABLY just give people an accurate map of where snow/ice is for every uncovered tile

I think I will never like winter, but I can see there's been huge improvements to it. The player count doesn't literally drop off a cliff and never recover during winter now. That said, if anything it's worse than when it was first released for combat and it was still BADDDDD when it first released for combat. When winter drops I go from playing so much I'm too ashamed to admit the actual number to literally not logging in. I think it's the same for most people who play primarily to fight.

[vatas]

From what I can tell, +1 to all the stuff about skis.

Other vehicles would probably be best "PvP balanced" indirectly by giving them a turning radius. Ideally, a Rowboat and Snekkja could run into each other on a river, and the optimal strategy for the rowboat player would be to keep going while Snekkja player struggles to U-turn fast enough if he wants to chase.
(To not make this "ship rotation 2.0" they should be given alternative movement mode where they can slowly move to any 4 directions without any rotation.)

[yym331]

I agree that winter PvP has, in many ways, become heavily reliant on requiring large amounts of items, which makes it unappealing, and I support most of the points raised here. However, I can’t agree with the suggestion to nerf reindeer

I do think it’s odd that players can deal damage to enemies outside their vehicle using one-handed swords. It would feel more balanced and natural if only weapons like the Boar Spear could be used for attacks while riding vehicles.
As for reindeer, I believe the main issue lies in the combination of multi-passenger capability and mobility. But isn’t that precisely the unique strength of reindeer? Nerfing it would undermine its core purpose, which doesn’t seem like the right approach.

[SnuggleSnail]

Nobody is rly concerned with combat sleigh. You can just aggro the reindeer. It doesn't matter. The issue how do you escape from a group of skii bois ever if a sleigh picks up and drops off the stragglers ahead of you over & over again.

Even when fighting people who are drastically less skilled I literally don't see a way to escape unless there's lucky terrain formation/friends/safepali. You are forced to either get starved to death or eventually stop and let them set up a max cleave on you. There is nothing you can do.

edit: actually, I'm not 100% sure the reindeer unleashes when you aggro it like with wagons. Winter is just so fucking bad that nobody even tests this important shit 'cause the strat is to just not play.

Other vehicles would probably be best "PvP balanced" indirectly by giving them a turning radius.

I will fly to Finland and shit in your mailbox if this ever happens

[yym331]

Nobody is rly concerned with combat sleigh. You can just aggro the reindeer. It doesn't matter. The issue how do you escape from a group of skii bois ever if a sleigh picks up and drops off the stragglers ahead of you over & over again.

Even when fighting people who are drastically less skilled I literally don't see a way to escape unless there's lucky terrain formation/friends/safepali. You are forced to either get starved to death or eventually stop and let them set up a max cleave on you. There is nothing you can do.

Oh, glad to hear no one's worried about the sleigh. That’s a relief

Make reindeer rawhide-able (this is not nearly enough of a nerf for sleighs but I can't think of anything else)

[SnuggleSnail]

You're retarded. Pills before you ban me please consider that is he is in fact retarded and willfully misinterpreting shit. Like a retard.

[yym331]

You're retarded. Pills before you ban me please consider that is he is in fact retarded and willfully misinterpreting shit. Like a retard.

Ah, I see. Thank you for sharing your thoughts

[ULGMsean]

Icky bits:
[*] Add an overlay for where ice/snow is that can be toggled at any time to the map. If toggled off regular summer map, if toggled on winter map. Maybe delete the winter map every winter if you can't/won't overlay everything you haven't seen for LARP/technical reasons, but PREFERABLY just give people an accurate map of where snow/ice is for every uncovered tile[/list]

+1, hope they do this before the next winter comes, I pretty much hate having map tiles getting all getting white

[mulamishne]

+1, but I also swear they said they fixed the minimap thing already? But also I feel like it was said to be fixed several times already.

[MightySheep]

Sled/ski pvp is definitely the most cancer pvp possible, worse than the SoS meta even. 1 thing that always annoyed me most about winter is the transition period (2nd most is the map tiles). If you going to make it a sled/ski thing then just make it a sled/ski thing within a day. I dont want to get cockblocked by the first river I see or random patches of grass. Until its all snow/ice its unplayable because you cant use boat or sled. I know it got improved but Im pretty sure it still too slow.