Pclaims are too easy to grief with

[bmjclark]

I'm posting this despite the fact that my group has actively abused the fuck out of this, but pclaims are way too easy to set up and then way too hard to break once set up (no one is going to break the thing peace just to siege a grief 10x10 pclaim for 24 hours). I currently have 2 alts with 40 int who maintain a combined 30 pclaims with ease. It's actually really stupid.

Problems
Multiple small pclaims can be maintained by a single alt chain studying shit curios.
Once set up, pclaims require the thing peace to be broken to be removed by other people.
Pclaims can be very close to a vclaim (5 tiles) while only taking 8 hours to dry meaning a simple siege claim can be set up during a villages down time. The village would then have to break their own thingpeace to remove this siege claim. This is especially problematic if villages don't extend their v claim pretty far out from their walls.

I think pclaims shouldn't be protected by the thingpeace. I think they should be able to be declaimed instantly with revoke the privilege rather than the vclaim needing to wait until the vclaim is 90% as old as the vclaim (this shit literally takes weeks even if you catch a troll pclaim near you fairly quickly) and I think pclaims should have the same building restrictions as vclaims (can only be built/extended 100 tiles from v claims)

[vatas]

vclaim needing to wait until the vclaim is 90% as old

This was implemented because people built Village Idols next to someone else's pclaim that they would then revoke after gathering enough Authority. "Didn't know you need to build your own Village Idol to prevent someone else from Thanos snapping your pclaim from existence?" is hardly an intuitive mechanic.

If some kind of compromise can be figured out, where a "troll claim" can be removed easily, but a "legitimate base" can't be. Problem is that automated system can't really tell the two apart (you could add some simple checks for houses/crops/etc. but then people would simply slap those into their troll claim.

[bmjclark]

vclaim needing to wait until the vclaim is 90% as old

This was implemented because people built Village Idols next to someone else's pclaim that they would then revoke after gathering enough Authority. "Didn't know you need to build your own Village Idol to prevent someone else from Thanos snapping your pclaim from existence?" is hardly an intuitive mechanic.

If some kind of compromise can be figured out, where a "troll claim" can be removed easily, but a "legitimate base" can't be. Problem is that automated system can't really tell the two apart (you could add some simple checks for houses/crops/etc. but then people would simply slap those into their troll claim.

The current solution to this is honestly just complete shit. It'd be one thing if it checked the time again the time the pclaim was there when it was claimed over (eg, if I claimed over a pclaim at 10 days, I need to wait 9 to declaim it) but it checks at the time that you try to revoke (meaning a 9 day old pclaim requires the vclaim to be there for 90 days to declaim it).

I'd honestly rather have claims soak up again like they used so that pclaims can be more easily sieged the newer they are.

[vatas]

Assuming you're talking about Claim "Power Level" it was a fine system - main problem was how first world with it had zero UI update to accommodate it. Example: in this instance, game was at 100% fault - in no way was it reasonable to expect him to randomly inspect his claim and realize it was paper until few weeks in.

[MightySheep]

dunno if I agree that its an issue

its really hard to get away with putting a pclaim outside an active village + they can banner over it + its normal to have banners already covering a certain radius around

nobody is making 30 pclaims other than ainran which is just weird and tryhard

Ive seen examples of people dropping vclaims ontop of pclaim hermits one guy msg me for HBI help because someone did this to him and the mechanics are really unintuitive and bad I didnt even know how to help him, does the time frame even matter? just the fact that you cant build your own vclaim and ur on a timer for when you inevitably gonna lose your base is kind of insane lol

I cant think of examples of pclaims being a big issue, a nearby siege base is always going to be a thing

[Kiklington]

an unwalled pclaim (something i have seen dozens of this world) should be vulnerable to wrecking balls. simple fix.

[vatas]

an unwalled pclaim (something i have seen dozens of this world) should be vulnerable to wrecking balls. simple fix.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but current system is "Wrecking Ball only be assembled off-claim or on a claim where you have Vandalism permissions?"

Allowing an exception right next to the pclaim totem would be hacky. But some way to easily remove a non-walled P-claim sounds reasonable.

[Fostik]

Pclaims can be very close to a vclaim (5 tiles) while only taking 8 hours to dry meaning a simple siege claim can be set up during a villages down time. The village would then have to break their own thingpeace to remove this siege claim. This is especially problematic if villages don't extend their v claim pretty far out from their walls.

Can't village build a single banner and remove claim for some authority? Isn't it compare village age towards claim age, not the flag?
Together with palisade still requiring 2 days to settle and being hand-bashable during that period, this particular example seems a bit exaggerated.

But overall I agree with topic main point - it's too easy to claim many things simultaneously and not to take any responsibility except some laughable amount of LP required for upkeep.
I kind of liked previous mechanics with claim strength collected over time, and effort-intensive buffs that can strengthen it for limited period.

[SnuggleSnail]

Can't village build a single banner and remove claim for some authority? Isn't it compare village age towards claim age, not the flag?
Together with palisade still requiring 2 days to settle and being hand-bashable during that period, this particular example seems a bit exaggerated.

It compares how long they've overlapped, and usually if you're extending a Pclaim right up to somebody's base you let it sit for like a week first. If somebody sticks a Pclaim close to your village I'd expect it to be there all world.

It's practically impossible to stop somebody from soaking a palisade nearby you if the person making it is motivated and has a decent sized Pclaim. If you spam CPs enough, especially early on, it takes so long to bash that honestly the person making them is 'winning' the effort trade even if you do end up destroying them every day. I remember calculating how long it's take to bash the korean's CP wall early this world and it was like 42 hours for my char with a sledgehammer and probably higher strength than most people have by this point assuming it didn't gain soak as it was being bashed. Plus you have to bash on a 'good' character and give scents, while they can rebuild on a char with 5 minutes of discovery LP

[DDDsDD999]

I think pclaims should have the same building restrictions as vclaims (can only be built/extended 100 tiles from v claims)

This is the only reasonable suggestion that can''t be abused. Maybe smaller, idk what the movement range of a catapult over 24 hours is, but it should at least be that. V claims should still be able to be built over p claims though.