Public Mapping Service

[Mike14]

Hey ! Very cool project! Do you plan to add more management features for markers in the future (like categories or filters)? That would make the map even more powerful.

[lachlaan]

Hey, do you know if the list of clients provided in the initial post is still valid? It would seem on Hurricane stuff no longer works, perhaps on account of the genus stuff you added to the endpoint?

Not sure if anyone else has yet adapted to the possibility of having to update to two maps at once from two different worlds.

[derkami]

Nope. Since I decided to add the genus, currently only my client will work.
I'm also in the last steps of updating the backend.

Will post everything tomorrow.

[derkami]

Alright I've update the main thread.
Since I could not test the new world before i don't really know if something might break.
If so let me know. I'm also trying to get in and fix shit as fast as possible.

It's now completely open to use for everyone who's interested.
You can login with your haven accounts via OpenID Connect (Oauth type of stuff / single sign on).
No password / Registration neccessary.

Keep in mind for the time being, only my client will work. Because it's the only client which provides the necessary genus information.
Commit Links are provided for all partys interested in it.

Loose Roadmap for 2026 is posted on the first page aswell.

[mvgulik]

Ps: Can I somehow enforce updating/sending map-tiles (from client to mapper) that did not made it to the mapper (had a bad setup, while thinking it was ok, while doing some initial exploring).

If not ... I figure I just have to revisit those tiles again in due time.

[derkami]

Ps: Can I somehow enforce updating/sending map-tiles (from client to mapper) that did not made it to the mapper (had a bad setup, while thinking it was ok, while doing some initial exploring).

If not ... I figure I just have to revisit those tiles again in due time.

Working on this right now. Whenever it's finished I'll let you know.

[mvgulik]

Cool

[mvgulik]

Just some general thoughts related to the fact that the 16.1 map seems to not get any additional user updates.

Only targeting the potential general logic of it, Not the potential feasibility of the actual code/storage/implementation/...

Potential down sides.
- Needs recording/storing of upload time for mmap's.
- Needs separate storage/mapping of initial first mmap's. -> (mmap + time)
- Needs separate storage/mapping for updated mmap's. -> (account + time)

Potential new rule(s) for the start of a new world (ie:17, 18, ...)
A) Mmap's in non-public maps that are older than X time (weeks/months) are auto added to the public map.
Potential down side: Mmap's where there is regular player activity remain black in the public map (after the start of an new world). Which in essence, over time, also potentially indicates where there is potential players active. (would give bigger black area's with longer delay)
+ Claims/villages will show up after they are abandoned. (unless some early local shoppers beats the update delay)

B) With the exception for the initial first mmap for a given, still unexplored, area. This of course needs some separate saving of those initial first mmap's. (using same delay here before they these are added to the public map.)

This auto updating of the public map could be done ones per day/week/... Should make tracing of potential player active areas less probable.
(Actual update time should probably be randomized a bit (+/- days) + resets delay counter. Just in case, to make it a bit less predictable.)

In essence ... Its would be a little tax/contribution (for the common good/map) players pay for having private mapping.

[derkami]

The main problem is, that constantly uploading map cache would actually put alot of stress on the client and on the server to actually process the information.
Also, everything I do has to be strictly opt-in per default.

The result of people using private maps and NOT sharing data can be seen this world more than ever.
Although I do still have a couple of things not implemented which are preventing a couple of people from contributing.

1) Since this world, only my client works. No other client, other than a couple of smaller groups who have adapted my changes and use my private hosted instances.
2) I don't have an easy mean to upload non live data. Except my Export to Mapper function will be working soon in my client.
3) Because this project started without the intention going public, this project does not have the backend files open source. This prevents other maintainers from implementing my changes, which I will address this year.


So basically Everything will be fixed and better for the community if these things will be fixed:
1) Open sourced mapping backend.
2) Support for sharing between backends and a central instance for the public map without access to critical information.
3) Adaption in ALL major custom clients with the same functionality (Map V5)
4) Have the option (Export to Mapper) available to every client, for ease of use. I really don't like hmap upload because it always contains all the information (Markers included). Export to Mapper right now does NOT include markers.

With all that, new worlds will have a faster, better public map.
Private maps are nice and all, but as you can see, once you have a private map, nothing flows back to a public map. I think that's not always because of people who are unwilling to share, but have no easy option to do so safely.
And right now only CoS is even sharing at their own discretion.

[mvgulik]

Gave the "time-stamp" part some additional thinking.

> "constantly uploading map cache"
Was actually only thinking about mmaps that are send by the auto-mapping process. Assuming those mmaps are only send (client to mapper-server) when a new/updated mmap is received (by client from game server).
The map-export feature poses a problem here. As in what 'mmap time-stamp' to use. Using the 'client to mapping server' upload time would not work. (as in: will be abused at a heavy cost (processing power) of the mapping server)

I kinda figured mmaps that are send by the auto-mapping are somewhat resistant to time manipulation/(abuse). Mainly because that time would/should be the current time.
But with open source code its a given that is not true. Which kinda undermines the whole 'how old was the last mmap update' process.

Recap: Crucial key part behind the 'whole idea' is the mmap time-stamp. As such it would need to have a high trust/secure level. But as usual with security issues: its tricky and in this case probably not really solvable.

Ergo: putting idea on ice.
(+ You got plenty of other stuff on your wish list already. )