Custom-client leaderboard

[Nightdawg]

I'd like to see some examples of my awful and unnecessary refactoring of loftar's stuff. While, yes, some code in there is even from before haven was 3d and was written while I was very new to both java and how the client works and I should rewrite all client features from scratch, I try to not touch loftar's code too much unless necessary, specifically to ease merging his changes in the future.

I can't find for the life of me the one feature I had to add that REALLY made me hate your code and love cediner's, shubla's, romovs', and ardennes' a lot more, but basically I had to choose between:
- importing 3 new classes that depend on another 2 new classes and change 500 lines and break other things cause you also changed some of loftar's code and are also missing some random code cause you handled it in a different way (I'm exaggerating a bit here)
OR
- add 5 new lines of code from cediner or ardennes (I am not exaggerating here)

Mind you, those new classes you were adding were not being used in any other places IIRC
I'm not even talking about your old code "that might be there since before 3d hafen". This involved some new code.

There's tons of things you refactor and change and it makes looking through your code even more complicated. On top of learning loftar's code base, I would have to learn all of your changes and refactoring as well, figure out which parts of loftar's code you didn't merge, which parts you changed, what's missing, what's extra.

For example you create new classes that might or might not extend the already existing ones, and if loftar changes something, it might be easier for you to merge his changes cause "no conflicts", but then won't classes like CraftDBWnd, DecoX, FightWndEx, MapWnd2, WindowX, ExtInventory just break other things because you didn't have any conflicts to look at in your merges, but stuff changed and you're trying to expand on old stuff?
There's stuff like WindowX extends Window, and Hidewnd extends WindowX, and CraftWindow extends GameUI.Hidewnd.

But sometimes you don't even add loftar's stuff (that he continues to build on even). Can we call that a good alternative to merge conflicts?

I know you added features that loftar eventually finally accepted to add LONG BEFORE he even considered them. You had keybindings long before loftar even started working on them.
started implementing key binding config Ender Wiggin 26/08/2016 14:33 PM
Added keybinding panel to options. Fredrik Tolf 19/09/2019 04:18 AM

But you never merged loftar's new keybindings, which are much easier to deal with and better imo. I know loftar RARELY adds a custom client feature and makes it better. I know it sucks when loftar changes stuff that breaks your things.
I know it's annoying when he adds a feature you added and somehow completely breaks your feature. But at this point one third of your client feels like it's either missing loftar's stuff, or you've just done it in a different way. But loftar continues to build on his client using his code, not yours.

Neither you, nor loftar, nor cediner, nor shubla are bad coders.
But GOD I just hate the way you and loftar code stuff compared to others, and I sincerely believe having to deal with 2 of you at the same time, rather than just one at a time, would make it significantly harder for me, a fucking scrub, who barely learned this stuff.

[EnderWiggin]

I can't find for the life of me the one feature I had to add that REALLY made me hate your code and love cediner's, shubla's, romovs', and ardennes' a lot more, but basically I had to choose between:
- importing 3 new classes that depend on another 2 new classes and change 500 lines and break other things cause you also changed some of loftar's code and are also missing some random code cause you handled it in a different way (I'm exaggerating a bit here)
OR
- add 5 new lines of code from cediner or ardennes (I am not exaggerating here)

Mind you, those new classes you were adding were not being used in any other places IIRC
I'm not even talking about your old code "that might be there since before 3d hafen". This involved some new code.

Would REALLY like to know what feature that was - because it might need some cleanup indeed.

There's tons of things you refactor and change and it makes looking through your code even more complicated. On top of learning loftar's code base, I would have to learn all of your changes and refactoring as well, figure out which parts of loftar's code you didn't merge, which parts you changed, what's missing, what's extra.

For example you create new classes that might or might not extend the already existing ones, and if loftar changes something, it might be easier for you to merge his changes cause "no conflicts", but then won't classes like CraftDBWnd, DecoX, FightWndEx, MapWnd2, WindowX, ExtInventory just break other things because you didn't have any conflicts to look at in your merges, but stuff changed and you're trying to expand on old stuff?
There's stuff like WindowX extends Window, and Hidewnd extends WindowX, and CraftWindow extends GameUI.Hidewnd.

So CraftDBWnd and ExtInventory are new classes because they are, in fact, completely new features. FightWndEx and MapWnd2 are indeed new classes that copy most of base class and are for ease of merge - changes that I've made in them would be a nightmare to actually merge if loftar changes even slightly in affected areas, so I try to monitor his changes in base classes and apply similar changes if applicable to my versions. WindowX was very needed until recently-ish when loftar added his Deco classes - now it is mostly kept as a way for me to opt-in new windows for the theming, instead of blindly applying to all. DecoX is extension of loftar's to facilitate theme changes on the fly and is now houses most of what was previously in WindowX. Not sure what's your problem with Hidewnd is - it was added by loftar as an easy way to make window just hide when closed, as opposed to default behavior of destroying it. As for me extending some of the classes - again, not sure what's the problem? Isn't this core use case of OOP?

But sometimes you don't even add loftar's stuff (that he continues to build on even). Can we call that a good alternative to merge conflicts?

I know you added features that loftar eventually finally accepted to add LONG BEFORE he even considered them. You had keybindings long before loftar even started working on them.
started implementing key binding config Ender Wiggin 26/08/2016 14:33 PM
Added keybinding panel to options. Fredrik Tolf 19/09/2019 04:18 AM

But you never merged loftar's new keybindings, which are much easier to deal with and better imo. I know loftar RARELY adds a custom client feature and makes it better. I know it sucks when loftar changes stuff that breaks your things.
I know it's annoying when he adds a feature you added and somehow completely breaks your feature.

I'd like to use his key bindings, but he added them quite late and all my code depends on my implementation, and I am quite lazy, yes. Plus his code saves bindings who knows where, while mine can be easily moved between PCs with 1 file. And not sure why it is so hard to use my key binder if all you have to do to add global hotkey is add 1 simple line that states action to bind to the keys and default keybind, if needed.

But at this point one third of your client feels like it's either missing loftar's stuff, or you've just done it in a different way. But loftar continues to build on his client using his code, not yours.

And what's the problem? Isn't it the purpose of custom clients to change code from default one? If everyone liked how it works, there would be no custom clients.

Neither you, nor loftar, nor cediner, nor shubla are bad coders.
But GOD I just hate the way you and loftar code stuff compared to others, and I sincerely believe having to deal with 2 of you at the same time, rather than just one at a time, would make it significantly harder for me, a fucking scrub, who barely learned this stuff.

In many cases for most custom clients you are looking at an aftermath of many-many years of coding the same project, during different times and shifting paradigms, often copying features from wrecks of previous clients. Hell, there were several long breaks during my involvement in haven and I forgot half the stuff I did before in my client! Am I liking whole code of my client fork? Hell no. If I had more motivation I'd rewrite it from scratch, using all the experience I got from years of programming in general and in haven specifically. I do this for 10+ years already, and honestly, I even considered stopping couple of times. But it seems that my client is indeed popular and many players rely on it, so I continue. If you feel so strongly about how other clients are coded, then you should try doing all this from scratch with proper code conventions and whatnot. But I guess you tried already - and after about a year (judging by git history) of ripping code from various clients without understanding why and how it works you dropped it. Or have you started another private client after dropping Havoc support?

I do not advocate for my client to become default - quite contrary, I'm against it, because it would require me to be 100% present to support it, which I do not want to do at this point. But using such strong words about clients that are supported for years is unwarranted.

[Nightdawg]

My point wasn't that your client is bad, just said that it would be much harder to deal with the code from everyone else's perspectives.

[Ardennesss]

Imagine how civilized society would be if all the custom client devs just worked together on one master branch instead of doing this merry-go-round of stealing from each-other and hacking features into their current implementations. Burnout would decrease, we could all occasionally take breaks and others would maintain it, we'd have combined brain power to figure out features that single developers perhaps couldn't. Alas, factions exist and people want an inherent advantage in any competitive game.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

people want an inherent advantage in any competitive game.

I think there are plenty of people that would be happy to have a level playing field too.

[Nightdawg]

Imagine how civilized society would be if all the custom client devs just worked together on one master branch instead of doing this merry-go-round of stealing from each-other and hacking features into their current implementations. Burnout would decrease, we could all occasionally take breaks and others would maintain it, we'd have combined brain power to figure out features that single developers perhaps couldn't. Alas, factions exist and people want an inherent advantage in any competitive game.

You know better than anyone how annoying it is to deal with the players. I don't care about sharing the client with everyone, but 90% of them just straight up don't deserve it.

Last world I saved 4 factions from having no pvp client and all they did was shittalk me

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Last world I saved 4 factions from having no pvp client and all they did was shittalk me

I hope this wasn't anyone from my faction. We were extremely grateful to have had the opportunity to use your client, and I didn't hear a single word of disagreement on that fact.

[Dawidio123]

Last world I saved 4 factions from having no pvp client and all they did was shittalk me

I hope this wasn't anyone from my faction. We were extremely grateful to have had the opportunity to use your client, and I didn't hear a single word of disagreement on that fact.

Except bob dole accusing nightdawg of crashing him, misa asking him to implement shady stuff AND leaking the client to his br friends in AD while the only stipulation for having the client was not leaking it.

[Nightdawg]

was not leaking it.

to AD*

XD

[grumgrumganoe]

Last world I saved 4 factions from having no pvp client and all they did was shittalk me

I hope this wasn't anyone from my faction. We were extremely grateful to have had the opportunity to use your client, and I didn't hear a single word of disagreement on that fact.

hey remember that pedophile from your village?

The brazilian one in case that’s not specific enough

Yeah in case u missed it Nightdawg just confirmed he’s the one person who fucked up the worst