Retribution and Lawkeeping

[Pictor]

What follows is a compilation of ideas related to lawkeeping, ranging, crimes and retribution. Firstly, this may seem a bit grab-baggy, but only out of necessity; Law and order touches on many things. Secondly, I realize several of these ideas have been suggested already in various forms, but, again, the purpose of this is to bring various ideas together to create something which works.

Enough waffle.

As it stands, Ranging and Criminals are on equal grounds mechanically. All scents are created equal, so to speak. The issue is that this actually serves to protect the criminal, simply because the criminal has the benefits of first strike and choice of target. The role of the ranger will always be reactionary. In the real world you would have large communities forming and defending themselves, but HnH sadly lacks the population density for that in any truly effective manner. So, I propose the following changes. Keep in mind that all of these changes are interdependent; It would be useless and even damaging to introduce them individually.


Step 1: Nerf Palisades/Buff Rams.
A palisade is nearly indestructible without a battering ram, and a battering ram is an ineffective siege tool due to its long drying time and low mobility. I'd propose nerfing palisades considerably, mainly in defensive capability, but also in resource requirements. Reduce their defensive strength to, say, destroyable with 50 strength and a pickaxe. Reduce costs slightly, say 2 wooden blocks per segment and 20 per cornerpost. Also, reduce drying time of the initial cornerpost to 2-4 hours. You could, alternatively, buff rams to be far more mobile, but nerfing palisades also has benefits for remodeling existing encampments.


Step 2: Retribution Scents
I know this idea has been suggested before, but it's a key ingredient. Simply put, if you are holding the scent of a criminal in your inventory, when you vandalize his property or murder him, you leave retribution scents. They are identical to their regular scents with a two differences: First, they can not force summon. Second, if you are holding a retribution scent when you kill a person, you leave a retribution scent yourself, not a murder scent.

At this point I've tipped the balance too far over in favor of the rangers. So let's bring it back a bit.


Step 3: Stealth Buff
Math time.

Scent_Quality = Sqrt(Criminal_Stealth*Criminal_Int)
Detection_Ability = Sqrt(Ranger_Exploration*Ranger_Perception).
Scent_Uses = Detection_Ability - Scent_Quality

The basic idea of this is fairly straightforward. If Scent_Uses is 0 or lower (which it will be if a criminal's stealth*int is equal to or greater than the ranger's exp*per) then the ranger simply does not see the scent. Otherwise, a harvested scent can be used as many times as is dictated by Scent_Uses.

Example: A criminal comes along, murders joe newbie. The criminal isn't a particularly good criminal, and only has 5 Stealth and 5 Int.
Along come two rangers, Watson and Holmes. Watson has 4 perception and 4 exploration. Holmes has 6 perception and 6 exploration. Watson can not see the scent. Holmes, can see the scent. He harvests the scent, which gives him exactly one use.


Step 4: Day beliefs give perception and exploration buffs. Night Beliefs give Int and Stealth buffs. Because I saw it elsewhere, and it'd work very well in conjunction with the above changes. Alternatively, a new "Chaos vs Order" belief slider could work.


The above changes when combined serve to increase the consequences of criminal actions and reward some protection to rangers from being killed in their sleep, whilst also allowing criminals to avoid detection entirely given sufficient skills and geographical placement. Some people may claim that Law and Order is fine as it is. I encourage these people to go try camping a battering ram out a killer's stronghold for 24 hours straight and tell me how that works out for them.

Criticism welcomed. Come at me, brothers.

[Robertzon]

Palisade nerf? HELL NO.

[Pictor]

Palisade nerf? HELL NO.

Please, continue.

[SeanPan]

Palisade nerf? HELL NO.

Please, continue.

The consequences of neteuring defense would be farreaching with negatives far outstripping any benefit of easier retribution. It would make small groups almost impossible to survive, and most likely force any players who want to be active to join a larger village. I do not wish that.

[barra]

As it stands, Ranging and Criminals are on equal grounds mechanically. All scents are created equal, so to speak. The issue is that this actually serves to protect the criminal, simply because the criminal has the benefits of first strike and choice of target. The role of the ranger will always be reactionary. In the real world you would have large communities forming and defending themselves, but HnH sadly lacks the population density for that in any truly effective manner. So, I propose the following changes. Keep in mind that all of these changes are interdependent; It would be useless and even damaging to introduce them individually.

In the real world, all "scents" are created equal. Whether it's a crime or justice depends on who has the power to set and enforce the laws. Why do people keep asking for some cosmic definition of crime/justice in H&H? This new system removes my "First Strike of Justice" against a criminal who is planning to attack me but is yet to leave scents. In the current system, everyone is a criminal and what's justice depends on who can defend or enforce it, just like the real world. With the proposed scent changes, anyone who initiates theft or violence is a criminal and anyone who retaliates is not.

I do not like. Also I have a feeling I'm repeating myself...

[TheYatesMachine]

.

[Grelf]

Step 1: Nerf Palisades/Buff Rams.
A palisade is nearly indestructible without a battering ram, and a battering ram is an ineffective siege tool due to its long drying time and low mobility. I'd propose nerfing palisades considerably, mainly in defensive capability, but also in resource requirements. Reduce their defensive strength to, say, destroyable with 50 strength and a pickaxe. Reduce costs slightly, say 2 wooden blocks per segment and 20 per cornerpost. Also, reduce drying time of the initial cornerpost to 2-4 hours. You could, alternatively, buff rams to be far more mobile, but nerfing palisades also has benefits for remodeling existing encampments.

This is clearly a double-sided sword which aids criminals as well. Actually I'd say it mainly favors raiders by rendering palisades useless.

[Pictor]

Now instantly every town without metal falls to your whim.

And so does yours. One of the major reasons that wandering killers are so aggressive is because they have nothing to fear. I'm not an incredibly potent warrior, but I could go sailing, right now, stealing whatever I felt like and killing pretty much whoever I came across, so long as they didn't have a wall. I could then bring it all home, kick back, and sleep easy knowing that I'd be perfectly safe for at least 24 hours. I wouldn't, of course, because I'm not a complete douchbag, but the fact that the only thing stopping me from freely shitting all over the surrounding country side is my conscience does not bode well for anybody.

[Potjeh]

It won't be long before people get palibashers.

[novaalpha]

I wish there were no palisades and brick walls.