Seaport

[niltrias]

By itself, I, too, am not opposed to the "seaport idea" for the purpose of trickling in new features, but the problem with it is what the "trading" should constitute. NPCs, by their very nature, cannot trade, as they have no values -- in effect, it would become trading with us, the developers; but seeing how we are not afflicted by scarcity, we cannot, by definition, trade. The only thing we could do is to try and set an arbitrary "penalty" for the procurement of new items (did someone mention planned economies?). And I don't like the idea of that, even as a temporary feature; it will just lead to odd situations and weird systems being built around them ("malinvestments", to speak in the terms of the Austrian economists; not to speak of the, in all likelyhood, resulting economic bubbles as a consequence of our tweaking and changing the system).

The only new items with which we have some kind of bootstrapping problem are natural resources anyway (since virtually anything else in the game is player-makable), so I think we'll just spread a few of them around seeing how they are, indeed, natural resources.

In itself, though, I like the seaport idea in that it would be possible to get various "colonial goods", which would be very suitable and fitting. If some system of actual trade could be set up, I would consider the idea.

I understand what you mean if the seaport were to be a CONSTANT provider of new stuff, but if it is only occasional then there will be no reason to set up a system around it. No one will know when the next batch is coming, nor will they know if the next batch is riding horses or pink bunny slippers, so a systematic approach to dealing with them would be almost impossible to implement.
Also, I dont see much difference between using a craft menu that charges me two steel bars and a log for a sword, and a trade dialog that charges me 50 WIC for the aforementioned pink bunnyslippers. In both cases, I am giving something up to get something that I value more, no?
But, you are the developer. Probably not much sense me arguing.

[Hamel]

Also, I dont see much difference between using a craft menu that charges me two steel bars and a log for a sword, and a trade dialog that charges me 50 WIC for the aforementioned pink bunnyslippers. In both cases, I am giving something up to get something that I value more, no?

Because that would be the equivalent of the developers setting the value of pink bunnyslippers to 50 WIC.

[niltrias]

Dunno. If there were only one pair, I would pay 50WC for them. Just so I could wander around telling people that I finally figured out how to dye things.

[kobnach]

Also, I dont see much difference between using a craft menu that charges me two steel bars and a log for a sword, and a trade dialog that charges me 50 WIC for the aforementioned pink bunnyslippers. In both cases, I am giving something up to get something that I value more, no?

Because that would be the equivalent of the developers setting the value of pink bunnyslippers to 50 WIC.

Perhaps we need a subtle distinction between value and cost. The cost of a carrot cake is 2 carrots, 1 flour, 1 butter, a bit of water, and 1/4 of the time and fuel to bake it - plus a miniscule fraction of the cost of the oven, and minus the LP you get from making it. This is set by the developers. What they don't set is the _value_ to me (needing more perception but overflowing with carrots) or you (lots of perception but fully industry and so finding carrots hard to come by). They can't set that - it necessarily differs based on our individual circumstances.

I don't see a big difference between costs set in agricultural produce/time and costs set in monetary produce (coins); coins are just a special case of metal work. Is there a real difference between a chainmail shirt costing 6 wrought iron and a tiny fraction of anvil/hammer and pink bunny slippers costing 3 wrought iron coins? Would it be different if traders in the seaport wanted carrots, flour, butter and water? I don't really see much difference. (And why shouldn't such traders want foodstuff or such rather than coins?)

[niltrias]

Also, I dont see much difference between using a craft menu that charges me two steel bars and a log for a sword, and a trade dialog that charges me 50 WIC for the aforementioned pink bunnyslippers. In both cases, I am giving something up to get something that I value more, no?

Because that would be the equivalent of the developers setting the value of pink bunnyslippers to 50 WIC.

Perhaps we need a subtle distinction between value and cost. The cost of a carrot cake is 2 carrots, 1 flour, 1 butter, a bit of water, and 1/4 of the time and fuel to bake it - plus a miniscule fraction of the cost of the oven, and minus the LP you get from making it. This is set by the developers. What they don't set is the _value_ to me (needing more perception but overflowing with carrots) or you (lots of perception but fully industry and so finding carrots hard to come by). They can't set that - it necessarily differs based on our individual circumstances.

I don't see a big difference between costs set in agricultural produce/time and costs set in monetary produce (coins); coins are just a special case of metal work. Is there a real difference between a chainmail shirt costing 6 wrought iron and a tiny fraction of anvil/hammer and pink bunny slippers costing 3 wrought iron coins? Would it be different if traders in the seaport wanted carrots, flour, butter and water? I don't really see much difference. (And why shouldn't such traders want foodstuff or such rather than coins?)

I wasnt suggesting the exclusive use on coins at seaports any more than I was suggesting pink bunny slippers should be available at them; sorry if I gave that impression.
Actually, it would make sense if items that would be likely used by nature-types cost nature-goods, and items likely to be used by industry cost industry-goods.
For example, brewers yeast could cost 100 hops, or X liters of grape juice, but silver ore could cost steel coins. Not that any of this seems likely. Looks to me like loftar has already given their answer on it.

[kobnach]

I guess my problem is that I don't understand the developers' objection; it seems to me that they are already setting costs.

[Potjeh]

To avoid direct pricing of goods, traders could only accept certain goods in return. I think that furs would work best. This would add some much needed value to furs in internal trade as well.

[moonshield]

To avoid direct pricing of goods, traders could only accept certain goods in return. I think that furs would work best. This would add some much needed value to furs in internal trade as well.

Wouldn't change the fact that NPCs don't have a value in items as they don't have to use them.

[Potjeh]

Well, think of this way - it's like crafting cinnamon out of fox hide. Only you can't do it all the time.

[kimya]

Amber Gris is whale vomit, It floats to the surface of the ocean. And just think ladies, you use that shit on your bodies all the time.. MMmm, whale vomit and animal piss, all for beauty

theres hardly any of this stuff in perfumes anymore. its all synthetic. btw, youre eating intestines...